The Starting Point

List-o-rama,

Since the first word of the forum name is "Making", I thought I'd throw out a point for discussion. I'm interested to hear any viewpoints on this, and if the reasoning isn't obvious, I'll just say that I'm having a problem getting a good running start on a new piece.

How do *you* get started on a new (microtonal) piece of music? What elements need to be in place? Is it just raw inspiration? Is it having all your ducks in a row, technology-wise? Does it all stem from picking the tuning first, or does a melody happen? The right ensemble? Phases of the moon?

I'd be *especially* interested in any anecdotes pertaining to a real roadblock, and how you happened to break through it.

Cheers,
Jon (the man with lots of bits and pieces, but nothing falling into place...)

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jon Szanto <jszanto@...> wrote:

> How do *you* get started on a new (microtonal) piece of music?

You'll probably hate this answer, but I usually start out pondering a
tuning system. What chords and chord relationships might be seen as
characteristic, for instance?

Gene,

{you wrote...}
>You'll probably hate this answer, but I usually start out pondering a tuning system. What chords and chord relationships might be seen as characteristic, for instance?

I can see why you'd have that response, but believe me as best you can: I don't hate it! I am simply a very harmonically handicapped person, and don't tend to think that way intuitively. In the pieces I've done before where I actively wanted to have harmonic underpinning/interest, I've always fallen far short of my goals. I'm working on small exercises in this direction, and while it won't ever be a hallmark of my compositional style, I hope to make it at least a little deeper. I hope to do some study in this area during spring and summer, always attempting to relate it to the musical materials as well.

Cheers,
Jon

In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jon Szanto <jszanto@...> wrote:
> How do *you* get started on a new (microtonal) piece of music?

I start with two pieces, a "frame" and a "seed". The seed is usually a
melody or harmony that strikes me, or even just a particular form of
instability that suggests a higher-order ET. The frame is some way of
structuring a piece around a seed.

More often than not, the frame is a sort of cut-up technique, where I
take short melodic or harmonic "gestures" and then juxtapose them in
time and space.

Lately I've been obsessed with canons, though, so they form my frame
more often than not. In that case, the seed is usually the first two
segments, a question that plays solo and then an answer that begins
simultaneously with the entrance of the second voice.

Sometimes, my seed is an entire tuning, though the result is usually
too masturbatory to be of any interest. More often, it's a short
melody with certain elements that suggest a tuning, like "strong
sevens".

--TRISTAN
(http://dreamingofeden.smackjeeves.com/)

Jon Szanto escreveu:
> How do *you* get started on a new (microtonal) piece of music? What
> elements need to be in place? Is it just raw inspiration? Is it
> having all your ducks in a row, technology-wise? Does it all stem
> from picking the tuning first, or does a melody happen? The right
> ensemble? Phases of the moon?
> > I'd be *especially* interested in any anecdotes pertaining to a real
> roadblock, and how you happened to break through it.

Hi Jon.

Interesting question.

My compositions are not numerous, but the `initial conditions' have been somewhat different for some pieces.

A couple of them were composed in a weekend each, without special preparing; I just started from begin to end... a 2-voices tonal piece (2002) and an atonal 12-EDO piece for soprano recorder (2003). (Note these pieces use conventional material and textures.)

Other pieces were result of previous experiments and speculations concerning to some musical matter I was interested in (some topic in harmony, rhythm, form, instrumental resources...). I have two short microtonal pieces for clarinet and guitar in 24-EDO. Part of the preparation time was tinkering with a special guitar tuning for quartertones, which has lead me to an 8-notes scale (8-EDO) and several quartertone chords available on the guitar. I did also a list of the harmonics (up to 7th) for that tuning, as well scratches for a (unfinished) 2-guitar 24-EDO piece.

++++

Lately I have made some speculations on 19-EDO, from a pitch-set based on the harmonics 6 to 15. It is a symmetrical set, so the pitches can be arranged in a sub-harmonic series as well. I have tried the sonorities with a MIDI keyboard (and zynaddsubfx synthesizer) and also with sound synthesis (using GNU Octave). I have made speculations on chord structures and sucession, common tones under tranposition/inversion etc. on the paper. I am interested on that symmetry -- how to convert harmonics into sub-harmonics, how to acomplish this with sound synthesis, how to explore the involved combination tones in a composition. At some moment, some accidental `finds' can get a musical `meaning' and drive me to the real compositional project (then I will probably scratch/draw a pre-composition with info about the textures, sections, and annotations). But before I need get an intimate knowledge/practice with the compositional material, to know what I can say with it. I think that 19-EDO piece will be either pure electroacoustic music or for some combination of electronics, glass marimba and recorder.

Cheers,
Hudson

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Jon Szanto wrote:
> List-o-rama,
> > Since the first word of the forum name is "Making", I thought I'd throw out a point for discussion. I'm interested to hear any viewpoints on this, and if the reasoning isn't obvious, I'll just say that I'm having a problem getting a good running start on a new piece.
> > How do *you* get started on a new (microtonal) piece of music? What elements need to be in place? Is it just raw inspiration? Is it having all your ducks in a row, technology-wise? Does it all stem from picking the tuning first, or does a melody happen? The right ensemble? Phases of the moon?
> > I'd be *especially* interested in any anecdotes pertaining to a real roadblock, and how you happened to break through it.
> > Cheers,
> Jon (the man with lots of bits and pieces, but nothing falling into place...)

It usually starts with a melodic idea, and in most cases involves playing around with the keyboard. Tunings that don't easily map to the standard 12-note keyboard are definitely harder to work with. But I think most of the successful experiences I've had have started out by exploring patterns on the keyboard, then stumbling across something that works out well. A couple of times I've had melodic ideas with specific interval patterns that I've had to set aside until months or years later, when I'm playing around with a new temperament that happens to work out with that melody. But most of the time, the melodic ideas come out of the exploration on the keyboard. Finding a good keyboard mapping can make a big difference. After it occurred to me to put the 10-note lemba scale on the black keys, I found it easier to work with lemba temperament.

The problem is, these ideas rarely lead to anything more than a few fragments. I guess there are a number of reasons for this, including laziness and having too many other interests to occupy my spare time, but also the difficulty of notation and the mismatch between the tuning systems and the keyboard. I think I have to be in a certain frame of mind in order to work on music, and when that happens, I can get a lot done in a few hours, but more often the interest in making music just isn't there.

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 Jon Szanto wrote:
>
> List-o-rama,
>
> Since the first word of the forum name is "Making", I thought I'd throw
out a point for discussion. I'm interested to hear any viewpoints on this,
and if the reasoning isn't obvious, I'll just say that I'm having a problem
getting a good running start on a new piece.
>
> How do *you* get started on a new (microtonal) piece of music? What
elements need to be in place? Is it just raw inspiration? Is it having all
your ducks in a row, technology-wise? Does it all stem from picking the
tuning first, or does a melody happen? The right ensemble? Phases of the
moon?
>
> I'd be *especially* interested in any anecdotes pertaining to a real
roadblock, and how you happened to break through it.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon (the man with lots of bits and pieces, but nothing falling into
place...)

Hi Jon,

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles!

Usually I make music because I can't help it - it just has
to come out. But there are times when I actually sit down
and apply myself ;-).

And most of the music wells up from a combination of
activity and mood, as I think I've described here before,
particularly when walking and looking around me, enjoying
a lovely day in the park or by the sea. Other times it comes
fully formed in my head when I'm lying relaxed between
sleep and waking. Then again, I get ideas from just random
"noodling" at an instrument (guitar, keyboard, flute, voice).

When I do get a block, it's because I can't get it down
quickly enough - not because it's uninteresting or vague,
but because new musical ideas well up and replace it.
Then sometimes I do struggle to complete the piece "the
way I heard it". This can be very frustrating. That's when
I have to apply myself. But you can't push too hard, or it
turns to rubbish. There's a point beyond which you say,
"Bad luck, it was a good idea while it lasted!" then move on
to the next thing.

As for the explicitly microtonal, it does depend on having
an instrument suitably tuned. The only two non-12-EDO
instruments I have in working order are the Roland MIDI
keyboard and my voice. Almost every time I see a new
tuning described on MMM or on the Tuning list, I try it
out (if practical) on the keyboard. My voice has this
tendency to do JI (alright, it's my brain) except when I'm
deliberately being scatty. Point is, I can't sing in, say,
20-EDO, unless I hear it first. I've also tried various
retunings of the guitar, some of which I've reported on
onlist, and others I haven't, particularly a deliberate and
random mis-tuning; improvising around that often sharpens
my tonal sense, but hasn't produced any recorded music
yet. That may come.

Well, this all FWIW, and from an amateur at that, rather
than a professional like so many of you. So what would I
know? Only what works for me.

The most important bit of advice I can give is: don't push
it too hard. If it's not happening, go for a walk, clear your
head, play a game of Tetris or tennis, breathe deep, do
ANYthing else for at least half a hour and stop thinking
about it. The answers often come quite clearly after a
complete break.

Regards,
Yahya

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--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jon Szanto <jszanto@...> wrote:
>
>...
> I'd be *especially* interested in any anecdotes pertaining to a real
> roadblock, and how you happened to break through it.
>

I was having trouble getting a particular sound (not microtonal) I
wanted, then posed the question to a different Yahoo music group.
About five minutes after considering all the replies I had the sound I
was looking for!
So I would say that you've taken the right first step, maybe just ask
a more pointed question here about what you want in particular. Maybe
you can beat my five minute mark!