Synthesizers with microtonal capability

John Loffink's web page seems to have vanished. Is there anyone
collecting up to date information on these?

For myself, I'm interested in software synths which can render a score
(such as a midi file) to a wav file. The only one I know of is Csound.

http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com

Also check out the wayoutware's timewARP 2600.

Joe

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith"
<genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
> John Loffink's web page seems to have vanished. Is there anyone
> collecting up to date information on these?
>
> For myself, I'm interested in software synths which can render a score
> (such as a midi file) to a wav file. The only one I know of is Csound.
>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <tamahome02000@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
>
> Also check out the wayoutware's timewARP 2600.

It seems timewARP 2600 allows you to use one pitch-bended midi track
at a time. This sounds like it could be made to work, but it seems it
wouldn't be possible to test before buying, since saving is disabled
on the trial version.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "J.Smith" <jsmith9624@...> wrote:

> Do a search for a freeware (donationware) program called SynthFont.
> It has microtuning up to 12 pitches/octave, uses soundfonts and
> renders MIDI to WAV. Take a look and see what you think. I
> downloaded it some time back, but became involved with the Orion
> software instead, so I can't do other than point you to it.

I'm aware of SynthFont, but it is basically the same as Timidity, and
would result in the same sorts of complaints.

How does Orion work? Can it deal with a pitch-bended midi file?

Orion Pro is kind of like a Cakewalk that supports microtuning?

Joe

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "J.Smith" <jsmith9624@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith"
> <genewardsmith@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "J.Smith" <jsmith9624@>
wrote:
> >
> > > Do a search for a freeware (donationware) program called
> SynthFont.
> > > It has microtuning up to 12 pitches/octave, uses soundfonts and
> > > renders MIDI to WAV. Take a look and see what you think. I
> > > downloaded it some time back, but became involved with the
Orion
> > > software instead, so I can't do other than point you to it.
> >
> > I'm aware of SynthFont, but it is basically the same as Timidity,
and
> > would result in the same sorts of complaints.
> >
> > How does Orion work? Can it deal with a pitch-bended midi file?
> >
>
>
> Gene,
>
> Orion Pro both imports and exports MIDI files, though I haven't yet
> attempted anything of the sort, nor am I up to speed on the details
of
> the proceedures; but it eventually ties into some of the other
> technical questions I'm learning about -- pitch-bends and the like.
> I'll keep you up to date on what I learn, since it seems we're
running
> along similar technical tracks at this point.
>
> Yours,
> jlsmith
>

>For myself, I'm interested in software synths which can render a score
>(such as a midi file) to a wav file. The only one I know of is Csound.

I keep telling you, any sequencer host will allow you to save
a MIDI file, as rendered by a VSTi, as a wave file. In addition,
many VSTis have this functionality independently.

-Carl

>> http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com
>>
>> Also check out the wayoutware's timewARP 2600.
>
>It seems timewARP 2600 allows you to use one pitch-bended midi track
>at a time. This sounds like it could be made to work, but it seems it
>wouldn't be possible to test before buying, since saving is disabled
>on the trial version.

Orchestral timbres are also not its forte.

-Carl

Carl,

{you wrote...}
>In addition, many VSTis have this functionality independently.

Can you name/link any VSTis that can:

- take a midi file that does *not* implement tuning with pitch bends
- take tuning information, either from MTS or Scala (or other?) files
- and then render a resulting audio file?

I've got, what, six VSTs that all actively allow >12-note retuning, but none of these incorporate rendering. Naturally, I do it with a host, but you seem to know about some instruments I don't (and would probably be helpful to the list).

Cheers,
Jon

At 02:38 PM 3/16/2006, you wrote:
>Carl,
>
>{you wrote...}
>>In addition, many VSTis have this functionality independently.
>
>Can you name/link any VSTis that can:
>
>- take a midi file that does *not* implement tuning with pitch bends
>- take tuning information, either from MTS or Scala (or other?) files
>- and then render a resulting audio file?

No, I don't know what the tuning capabilities of those synths
are, and I don't even remember which ones they are at the moment.
But they do exist.

-Carl

C,

{you wrote...}
>No, I don't know what the tuning capabilities of those synths are, and I don't even remember which ones they are at the moment. But they do exist.

I therefore don't believe you. :)

Cheers,
Jon

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@...> wrote:
>
> >For myself, I'm interested in software synths which can render a score
> >(such as a midi file) to a wav file. The only one I know of is Csound.
>
> I keep telling you, any sequencer host will allow you to save
> a MIDI file, as rendered by a VSTi, as a wave file. In addition,
> many VSTis have this functionality independently.

And you know a Windows version which actually works?

>> >For myself, I'm interested in software synths which can render a score
>> >(such as a midi file) to a wav file. The only one I know of is Csound.
>>
>> I keep telling you, any sequencer host will allow you to save
>> a MIDI file, as rendered by a VSTi, as a wave file. In addition,
>> many VSTis have this functionality independently.
>
>And you know a Windows version which actually works?

I've done it in Sonar.

All of these things are hideous software, though. IMO.

Tracktion has some things going for it. And apparently Orion.

Live is by far the best music app I've seen to date in terms
of interface, but I don't know how to do this (though I'm sure
it's possible).

-Carl

Carl,

{you wrote...}
>>And you know a Windows version which actually works?

People have been posting microtonal music made on the Windows platform in this forum for a long time. How could one not notice?

>I've done it in Sonar. All of these things are hideous software, though. IMO.

Not a problem here. Better than not being able to do it at all, that is certain.

>Live is by far the best music app I've seen to date in terms of interface, but I don't know how to do this (though I'm sure it's possible).

I like it a lot, but not ideal for the kind of composing/music that most people around here work with. I'm considering it for live performance, however. We'll see when I get my new laptop.

Cheers,
Jon

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jon Szanto <jszanto@...> wrote:
>
> Carl,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >>And you know a Windows version which actually works?
>
> People have been posting microtonal music made on the Windows
platform in this forum for a long time. How could one not notice?

Yes, but how are they doing it? I'm not going to try to become a
keyboard artist, and I can't recall people saying they used VST. Joe
Pehrson used the z3ta+, so I presume it can be done, but I don't know
how or what is involved. When I've emailed manufacturers, it generally
seems what I want isn't what interests them.

At 07:01 PM 3/16/2006, you wrote:
>Carl,
>
>{you wrote...}
>>>And you know a Windows version which actually works?
>
>People have been posting microtonal music made on the Windows platform
>in this forum for a long time. How could one not notice?

I didn't write that.

>>I've done it in Sonar. All of these things are hideous software,
>>though. IMO.
>
>Not a problem here. Better than not being able to do it at all, that
>is certain.

I guess.

>>Live is by far the best music app I've seen to date in terms of
>>interface, but I don't know how to do this (though I'm sure it's
>>possible).
>
>I like it a lot, but not ideal for the kind of composing/music that
>most people around here work with. I'm considering it for live
>performance, however. We'll see when I get my new laptop.

It has powers beyond loops, if you think big.

-Carl

>Yes, but how are they doing it? I'm not going to try to become a
>keyboard artist, and I can't recall people saying they used VST. Joe
>Pehrson used the z3ta+, so I presume it can be done, but I don't know
>how or what is involved.

Joe uses z3ta+ as a VSTi in a VST host called Sonar. What's
involved is learning how to use Sonar and z3ta+. You can buy
tutorial DVDs and books about Sonar. Learning z3ta+ is less
about not plucking out your eyes in amazement at how hard
something can be made with the right software, and more about
learning how to get the synth to make the sounds you want (which
might, since you're dealing with a physical system, even be fun).

-Carl

Gene,

{you wrote...}
>> People have been posting microtonal music made on the Windows
>platform in this forum for a long time. How could one not notice?
>
>Yes, but how are they doing it?

Oh, c'mon - people have posted details until they are blue in the face! Rick McGowan has written a virtual tutorial on using Finale/Garritan/FTS. I've *always* posted how I worked with VSTs and hosts. I very publicly guided Joe Pehrson on adopting some of this paradigm, which he has done a couple of pieces with already.

It has been covered at length.

>I'm not going to try to become a keyboard artist

Sure, I can understand that. My chops are rudimentary at best. But if you have generated a midi file in some way, that means that you have the potential to take that as raw material and tweak it. If you produced a score for keyboard input, you might find an eager music student - who needed math tutoring - to help input it. You could - as others have - utilize graphical tools, like piano roll entry, or things like step entry or other methods. I wouldn't get the worst gig in the worst dive on keyboard, but what I've managed to get happening - skill-wise - has paid off both in entry of music into a sequencer as well as the great enjoyment of just sitting back, plugging in a tuning into a VST and playing for the pleasure of it.

A few years ago, when I was writing/recording music for a production library company, I came up with a demo for one of the albums. The featured instrument in my demo was a classical guitar on the main melody. But when I went in to produce the track the president of the company said "I've already got enough guitar features, lets do it with piano". Hell, I didn't have a pianist scheduled that day, and couldn't get one. We put down all the other tracks, and damn if I didn't have to go out of the booth into the studio and lay down the piano track myself.

Sad to say, it's one of the tracks that still gets play, either on the History channel or Discovery, I can't remember which. I just see it turn up on the BMI usage/royalty statement. The noodling in my backroom studio came in handy.

>... and I can't recall people saying they used VST.

It has been discussed constantly here, including people posting about working with developers to implement tuning features in VSTs as they are being coded.

>Joe Pehrson used the z3ta+, so I presume it can be done, but I don't know how or what is involved.

Well, feel free to ask, though I've already gone over it with you, and it is well documented in the archives here also.

>When I've emailed manufacturers, it generally seems what I want isn't what interests them.

That is the case with all of us, Gene. They *aren't* interested in microtonality, for the most part. But when approached appropriately, they are willing to be interested. As long as they are going to go that far, are you willing to alter/adapt/re-learn some of your work flow, with the possibility you'll find some new and inspirational areas?

Jon

I actually recently emailed Ableton Live:

Joe,

at this point Ableton Live instruments do not provide microtonal
scales, however Live does support detuning the instruments in
microtonal increments, and of course Live also loads synths such as
Absynth, Reaktor etc., which *do* provide microtonal scales.

All the best,
--
Andreas Wetterberg
ableton ag

Another option is just to get a really good soundfont and maybe turn
on some reverb, and then record from 'what you hear' or 'wave out mix'
using Audacity (free recording app). Someone recently gave me a book
about the old awe32 soundcard, and the midi files with special 512k
soundfont files loaded sounded AWEsome.

Joe

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jon Szanto <jszanto@...> wrote:
>
> Carl,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >>And you know a Windows version which actually works?
>
> People have been posting microtonal music made on the Windows
platform in this forum for a long time. How could one not notice?
>
> >I've done it in Sonar. All of these things are hideous software,
though. IMO.
>
> Not a problem here. Better than not being able to do it at all, that
is certain.
>
> >Live is by far the best music app I've seen to date in terms of
interface, but I don't know how to do this (though I'm sure it's
possible).
>
> I like it a lot, but not ideal for the kind of composing/music that
most people around here work with. I'm considering it for live
performance, however. We'll see when I get my new laptop.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jon Szanto <jszanto@...> wrote:

> Oh, c'mon - people have posted details until they are blue in the
face! Rick McGowan has written a virtual tutorial on using
Finale/Garritan/FTS.

Which is absurd even to discuss until the new version of FTS is out.
> If you produced a score for keyboard input, you might find an eager
> music student - who needed math tutoring - to help input it. You
could - as others have - utilize graphical tools, like piano roll
entry, or things like step entry or other methods.

If I want a hard to use system, I can work with Tonescape; I may try
that again. But I'm more interested in systems which are not a major
pain to use.

> Sad to say, it's one of the tracks that still gets play, either on
the History channel or Discovery, I can't remember which. I just see
it turn up on the BMI usage/royalty statement. The noodling in my
backroom studio came in handy.

Funny story.

> >... and I can't recall people saying they used VST.
>
> It has been discussed constantly here, including people posting
about working with developers to implement tuning features in VSTs as
they are being coded.
>
> >Joe Pehrson used the z3ta+, so I presume it can be done, but I
don't know how or what is involved.

I tried to get VST to work, and it didn't; it seems I'd better use
something like Sonar.

Gene,

> > ... Finale/Garritan/FTS.
> Which is absurd even to discuss until the new version of FTS is out.

Huh? It's not absurd to discuss, *especially* among people on this list.
Robert Walker will make FTS beta available to any of the people on this
list, as I've said before. FTS comes with at least a 2-week unhampered free
trial. All ya gotta do is ask Robert where to get the latest download. If
you need his contact address you can get hold of him through the FTS
support address: support@...

And FTS relaying will work very well not only with Finale/GPO, but with
any synth that responds to pitch-bends on the MIDI in channel.

I'd be really happy if anyone from the list pinged Robert and tried the
FTS beta, and looked at my attempt at a tutorial, which I post again for
those who missed it:

http://rm-and-jo.laughingsquid.org/FTS-HowTo/MicroOrchestra.html

And if anyone tries it, I'd be happy to hear about your experience so I
can improve the tutorial.

Cheers,
Rick