Futura

> Most people in the West love one or more styles
> of 12 EDO music, yet hate,or are at least indifferent
> to other styles of 12 EDO music.

This is like saying, "most people in the west enjoy television with a
frame rate of 30 per second" (or is it 24? sorry can't remember. . .).

I don't think the 12-EDO matters at all. It would be much more accurate
to say that most people in the West love diatonic music. If we were to
replace 90% of the music listened to today with tuning in, say, 17-EDO, I
doubt many would notice. you can extract an OK-sounding diatonic scale
from 17-EDO, and any differences people heard (probably none for most)
would be attributed to being "expressive".

Plus, we all know that blues and many other popular musics (or less
popular derivatives of popular musics) contain non-12-EDO elements
a-plenty.

so what exactly are we missing?
Systematic microtonality? But how would that be manifested?

I could even easily see adding lyrics to Paul Erlich's TIBIA, and it
becoming as popular as Heart and Soul.

and then there's Monzo's Invisible Haircut. . .

I wonder if you played K Gann's recent 13-limit thing, and didn't say
"HEY THIS IS MICROTONAL", if anyone off the street would even notice.
Maybe they'd think it was just a cool boogie-woogie thing. And if the
melody line were played by saxophone, probably they'd notice even less.

Anyway, I think that 1), there's a lot of non-12-EDO out in the world
(becase as I've said many times, it's hard to play in 12-EDO unless
you're on a fixed-pitch instrument,
2) there's a lot of non-12-edo stuff that you could play for people, and
they'd just accept it, no big deal.

I would add that a lot of popular music being made using digital sampling/splicing techniques (i.e., mashups and remixes), as well as using analog sources (turntable scratching), is not "in tune" in the conventional sense, since the different layers are often synchronized on the basis of rhythm rather than exact pitch. So we often hear multiple simultaneous "12-EDO" scales based on different frequency bases, resulting in music that, while based on 12-EDO, contains lots of intervals that you wouldn't expect to hear in that context. And no-one seems to mind. To my mind, it doesn't matter much if the effect is intentional or accidental, it still expands the listeners' scope of what is acceptable.

- Dave

Christopher Bailey wrote:
>> Most people in the West love one or more styles >> of 12 EDO music, yet hate,or are at least indifferent >> to other styles of 12 EDO music.
> > > > This is like saying, "most people in the west enjoy television with a > frame rate of 30 per second" (or is it 24? sorry can't remember. . .). > > I don't think the 12-EDO matters at all. It would be much more accurate > to say that most people in the West love diatonic music. If we were to > replace 90% of the music listened to today with tuning in, say, 17-EDO, I > doubt many would notice. you can extract an OK-sounding diatonic scale > from 17-EDO, and any differences people heard (probably none for most) > would be attributed to being "expressive".
> > Plus, we all know that blues and many other popular musics (or less > popular derivatives of popular musics) contain non-12-EDO elements > a-plenty.
> > so what exactly are we missing?
> Systematic microtonality? But how would that be manifested? > > I could even easily see adding lyrics to Paul Erlich's TIBIA, and it > becoming as popular as Heart and Soul. > > and then there's Monzo's Invisible Haircut. . .
> > I wonder if you played K Gann's recent 13-limit thing, and didn't say > "HEY THIS IS MICROTONAL", if anyone off the street would even notice. > Maybe they'd think it was just a cool boogie-woogie thing. And if the > melody line were played by saxophone, probably they'd notice even less.
> > > Anyway, I think that 1), there's a lot of non-12-EDO out in the world > (becase as I've said many times, it's hard to play in 12-EDO unless > you're on a fixed-pitch instrument, > 2) there's a lot of non-12-edo stuff that you could play for people, and > they'd just accept it, no big deal.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Bailey <chris@m...>
wrote:

If we were to
> replace 90% of the music listened to today with tuning in, say,
17-EDO, I
> doubt many would notice.

Some people would complain it's a little out of tune, I suspect. I
know (because I've done this a lot) that people have no trouble in the
other direction, and are quite willing to listen to 31-et in place of
12-et.

At 08:26 AM 12/11/2005, you wrote:
>> Most people in the West love one or more styles
>> of 12 EDO music, yet hate,or are at least indifferent
>> to other styles of 12 EDO music.
>
>This is like saying, "most people in the west enjoy television with a
>frame rate of 30 per second" (or is it 24? sorry can't remember. . .).

It's 30 for NTSC (actually 60 interlaced). Movies are 24.

-Carl

NTSC=never twice same color

Carl Lumma wrote:

>At 08:26 AM 12/11/2005, you wrote:
> >
>>> Most people in the West love one or more styles >>> of 12 EDO music, yet hate,or are at least indifferent >>> to other styles of 12 EDO music.
>>> >>>
>>This is like saying, "most people in the west enjoy television with a >>frame rate of 30 per second" (or is it 24? sorry can't remember. . .). >> >>
>
>It's 30 for NTSC (actually 60 interlaced). Movies are 24.
>
>-Carl
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

At 12:00 PM 12/11/2005, you wrote:
>NTSC=never twice same color

:) :)

-Carl

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Bailey <chris@m...>
wrote:
>
> > Most people in the West love one or more styles
> > of 12 EDO music, yet hate,or are at least indifferent
> > to other styles of 12 EDO music.
>
>
> This is like saying, "most people in the west enjoy television with

I agree.

Microtones.com's $700 microtonal guitars is a step in the right
direction. A lot of pop music is written on guitar and if cheaply
available microtonal guitars were available, more new pop music would
be written on them.

paolovalladolid wrote:

>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Bailey <chris@m...>
>wrote:
> >
>>> Most people in the West love one or more styles >>> of 12 EDO music, yet hate,or are at least indifferent >>> to other styles of 12 EDO music.
>>> >>>
>>This is like saying, "most people in the west enjoy television with >> >>
>
>I agree. >
>Microtones.com's $700 microtonal guitars is a step in the right
>direction. A lot of pop music is written on guitar and if cheaply
>available microtonal guitars were available, more new pop music would
>be written on them.
> >

Do you own one?

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

Futura?

http://tinyurl.com/dympg

Cheers,
Jon

Jon Szanto wrote:

>Futura?
>
>http://tinyurl.com/dympg
>
I want one.....no, no....I NEED one.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, David Beardsley <db@b...> wrote:

> >I agree.
> >
> >Microtones.com's $700 microtonal guitars is a step in the right
> >direction. A lot of pop music is written on guitar and if cheaply
> >available microtonal guitars were available, more new pop music would
> >be written on them.
> >
> >
>
> Do you own one?

No.

it almost looks like george secor driving it!
you rascal!

Jon Szanto wrote:

>Futura?
>
>http://tinyurl.com/dympg
>
>Cheers,
>Jon
>
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "paolovalladolid" <phv40@h...>
wrote:
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, David Beardsley <db@b...> wrote:
>
> > >I agree.
> > >
> > >Microtones.com's $700 microtonal guitars is a step in the right
> > >direction. A lot of pop music is written on guitar and if cheaply
> > >available microtonal guitars were available, more new pop music would
> > >be written on them.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Do you own one?
>
> No.

To clarify, any idea of getting back into guitar playing has been
derailed by increasing demand for my bowed string playing. I'm hardly
a first-call guy in this town, but the demand is enough that I gotta
practice more and more....

paolovalladolid wrote:

>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "paolovalladolid" <phv40@h...>
>wrote:
> >
>>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, David Beardsley <db@b...> wrote:
>>
>> >>
>>>>I agree. >>>>
>>>>Microtones.com's $700 microtonal guitars is a step in the right
>>>>direction. A lot of pop music is written on guitar and if cheaply
>>>>available microtonal guitars were available, more new pop music would
>>>>be written on them.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>Do you own one?
>>> >>>
>>No.
>> >>
>
>To clarify, any idea of getting back into guitar playing has been
>derailed by increasing demand for my bowed string playing. I'm hardly
>a first-call guy in this town, but the demand is enough that I gotta
>practice more and more....
>

Nothing wrong with that.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...>
wrote:
>
> it almost looks like george secor driving it!
> you rascal!

Assuming that the photo was taken c. 1955, I would have been ~11 years
old. As best as I can remember, I didn't look much like that.

--George

> Jon Szanto wrote:
>
> >Futura?
> >
> >http://tinyurl.com/dympg
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Jon

you whipper snapper then!

George D. Secor wrote:

>
>Assuming that the photo was taken c. 1955, I would have been ~11 years >old. As best as I can remember, I didn't look much like that.
>
>--George
>
> >
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles