Re: [MMM] Digest Number 1407

From: "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@...>
Subject: Re: replyyyyy whyyyyyy

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jacob" <jbarton@r...> wrote:

>> 2) Regarding 'meta,' I have always taken 'meta' as something
>> transcendent, beyond, 'higher-level,' more abstract, and so on. Are
>> meta-mavila and meta-meantone tunings with exact/concrete fifths?

There are recurrence relationships also, but what I was claiming
should be called "Wilson meantone", or at least not be called
"metameantone", is the meantone tuning with a fifth f satisfying f4 =
2f+2. That's pretty concrete.
_____________________________________________________________

Sometimes people come up with the same thing from completely different perspectives. 12tet is both meantone-like AND circulating AND equal, and there's no reason to abandon any of those perspectives. Wilson has a project, different from yours, of locating meta- (=beyond, as in the books beyond Aristotles' Physics book) tunings in convergent series he finds in Pascal's triangle. Meta-slendro, meta-pelog meta-mavila, meta-meatone are results of this project, and it's as useful -- and truthful -- to hear them in this grouping as in your "meantone" grouping.

(BTW I happen to reserve the unadulterated term "meantone" for the quarter-comma tuning, so we may simply be at terminal loggerheads, anyways. So what...)

Daniel Wolf

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Wolf <djwolf@s...>
>
> Sometimes people come up with the same thing from completely different
> perspectives. 12tet is both meantone-like AND circulating AND equal,
and
> there's no reason to abandon any of those perspectives. Wilson has a
> project, different from yours, of locating meta- (=beyond, as in the
> books beyond Aristotles' Physics book) tunings in convergent series he
> finds in Pascal's triangle. Meta-slendro, meta-pelog meta-mavila,
> meta-meatone are results of this project, and it's as useful -- and
> truthful -- to hear them in this grouping as in your "meantone"
grouping.
>

I was halfway down the Autobahn to Heidelberg with my kids when it
dawned on me that I had forgotten the main distinction from
meantone-like tunings: Wilson's meta-tunings are in just intonation:
they converge on generators similar to those in meantone, pelog,
slendro, mavila etc., but by ever closer rational approximations. Part
of the real charm of these tunings is the contrast between the earlier
segments, with lots of familiar, simple ratios, and later segements
with more complex ratios.

Meta-meantone, then, is related at once to meantone-like tunings, to
other Just arrays, and to other meta-tunings. I think that our
compositional outlooks can be broadened by considering all of these
familial relationships rather than limiting ourselves to any single one.

Daniel Wolf

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "danieljameswolf" <djwolf@s...>
wrote:

> I was halfway down the Autobahn to Heidelberg with my kids when it
> dawned on me that I had forgotten the main distinction from
> meantone-like tunings: Wilson's meta-tunings are in just intonation:
> they converge on generators similar to those in meantone, pelog,
> slendro, mavila etc., but by ever closer rational approximations. Part
> of the real charm of these tunings is the contrast between the earlier
> segments, with lots of familiar, simple ratios, and later segements
> with more complex ratios.

So I understand, which is another reason for my objection to calling
Wilson meantone "metameantone".