Re: [MMM] Just intonation composition techniques?

Hi Magnus,

Sounds fine to me.

I take it this is an example of the slow stuff? Howabout an
example of the fast stuff? (And why not write some of both!)

I don't know what the speed issue has to do with JI (or tuning).
Tenney is quoted as saying Western music is fast because it's out
of tune, but I think this statement is wrong for multiple reasons.
Outside of the fixed pitch instruments, probably the reverse is
true.

-Carl

>Hi group,
>
>I am trying to compose SATB choir music in just intonation. I am
>somewhat stuck or confused. I don't know if it relates to just
>intonation or composing for a choir, or just my general composition
>skills. I don't have any formal training in any of these subjects.
>My problem is:
>
>My music tends to become very slow. And the vocal lines very simple,
>especially the bass&tenor part. I am afraid this will bore singers
>and listeners. But if I try to compose faster music, and make vocal
>lines move more independent, I find the result sounding messy even
>if it's still harmonious.
>
>Here is a piece I'm working on right now:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/clhob
>
>or equivalently:
>
>http://magnus.smartelectronix.com/examples/Magnus%20Jonsson%20-%20Walk
>ing%20to%20Class%202.mp3
>
>It is a prototype recording, so please be forgiving on my singing and the
>audio quality. And be forgiving on my amateur lyrics. Once I write
>something that is good enough I'm hoping to get one of the university
>choirs to sing my piece.
>
>I guess what I am asking is if there are any particular techniques that
>other just intonation composers use, that could be of general help for me.
>I've tried to google for information about just intonation composition,
>and there's not a lot out there beyond the basics of ratios, and endless
>tuning talk.
>
>Any advice?
>
>- Magnus Jonsson

The speed issue has everything to do with JI (or tuning). The
accuracy with which pitch can be specified is inversely proportional
to its duration (this is the 'classical uncertainty principle').
Also, the longer a chord is held, the more chance that any beating
present will have time to complete any substantial part or number of
complete cycles. Long durations are essential to getting the intended
effect out of quite a lot of the JI music I'm familiar with.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
>
> Hi Magnus,
>
> Sounds fine to me.
>
> I take it this is an example of the slow stuff? Howabout an
> example of the fast stuff? (And why not write some of both!)
>
> I don't know what the speed issue has to do with JI (or tuning).
> Tenney is quoted as saying Western music is fast because it's out
> of tune, but I think this statement is wrong for multiple reasons.
> Outside of the fixed pitch instruments, probably the reverse is
> true.
>
> -Carl
>
> >Hi group,
> >
> >I am trying to compose SATB choir music in just intonation. I am
> >somewhat stuck or confused. I don't know if it relates to just
> >intonation or composing for a choir, or just my general composition
> >skills. I don't have any formal training in any of these subjects.
> >My problem is:
> >
> >My music tends to become very slow. And the vocal lines very
simple,
> >especially the bass&tenor part. I am afraid this will bore singers
> >and listeners. But if I try to compose faster music, and make vocal
> >lines move more independent, I find the result sounding messy even
> >if it's still harmonious.
> >
> >Here is a piece I'm working on right now:
> >
> >http://tinyurl.com/clhob
> >
> >or equivalently:
> >
> >http://magnus.smartelectronix.com/examples/Magnus%20Jonsson%20-%
20Walk
> >ing%20to%20Class%202.mp3
> >
> >It is a prototype recording, so please be forgiving on my singing
and the
> >audio quality. And be forgiving on my amateur lyrics. Once I write
> >something that is good enough I'm hoping to get one of the
university
> >choirs to sing my piece.
> >
> >I guess what I am asking is if there are any particular techniques
that
> >other just intonation composers use, that could be of general help
for me.
> >I've tried to google for information about just intonation
composition,
> >and there's not a lot out there beyond the basics of ratios, and
endless
> >tuning talk.
> >
> >Any advice?
> >
> >- Magnus Jonsson
>

doug leedy did quite well retuning just two octaves of the piano to give the ensemble the pieces.
Quite a nice piece

Paul Erlich wrote:

>The speed issue has everything to do with JI (or tuning). The >accuracy with which pitch can be specified is inversely proportional >to its duration (this is the 'classical uncertainty principle'). >Also, the longer a chord is held, the more chance that any beating >present will have time to complete any substantial part or number of >complete cycles. Long durations are essential to getting the intended >effect out of quite a lot of the JI music I'm familiar with.
>
>
>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> >
>>Hi Magnus,
>>
>>Sounds fine to me.
>>
>>I take it this is an example of the slow stuff? Howabout an
>>example of the fast stuff? (And why not write some of both!)
>>
>>I don't know what the speed issue has to do with JI (or tuning).
>>Tenney is quoted as saying Western music is fast because it's out
>>of tune, but I think this statement is wrong for multiple reasons.
>>Outside of the fixed pitch instruments, probably the reverse is
>>true.
>>
>>-Carl
>>
>> >>
>>>Hi group,
>>>
>>>I am trying to compose SATB choir music in just intonation. I am
>>>somewhat stuck or confused. I don't know if it relates to just
>>>intonation or composing for a choir, or just my general composition
>>>skills. I don't have any formal training in any of these subjects.
>>>My problem is:
>>>
>>>My music tends to become very slow. And the vocal lines very >>> >>>
>simple, > >
>>>especially the bass&tenor part. I am afraid this will bore singers
>>>and listeners. But if I try to compose faster music, and make vocal
>>>lines move more independent, I find the result sounding messy even
>>>if it's still harmonious.
>>>
>>>Here is a piece I'm working on right now:
>>>
>>>http://tinyurl.com/clhob
>>>
>>>or equivalently:
>>>
>>>http://magnus.smartelectronix.com/examples/Magnus%20Jonsson%20-%
>>> >>>
>20Walk
> >
>>>ing%20to%20Class%202.mp3
>>>
>>>It is a prototype recording, so please be forgiving on my singing >>> >>>
>and the > >
>>>audio quality. And be forgiving on my amateur lyrics. Once I write >>>something that is good enough I'm hoping to get one of the >>> >>>
>university > >
>>>choirs to sing my piece.
>>>
>>>I guess what I am asking is if there are any particular techniques >>> >>>
>that > >
>>>other just intonation composers use, that could be of general help >>> >>>
>for me. > >
>>>I've tried to google for information about just intonation >>> >>>
>composition, > >
>>>and there's not a lot out there beyond the basics of ratios, and >>> >>>
>endless > >
>>>tuning talk.
>>>
>>>Any advice?
>>>
>>>- Magnus Jonsson
>>> >>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

>The speed issue has everything to do with JI (or tuning). The
>accuracy with which pitch can be specified is inversely proportional
>to its duration (this is the 'classical uncertainty principle').
>Also, the longer a chord is held, the more chance that any beating
>present will have time to complete any substantial part or number of
>complete cycles. Long durations are essential to getting the intended
>effect out of quite a lot of the JI music I'm familiar with.

What music is that, and does it resemble in any way the kind of
music Magnus is writing here?

-Carl

Thanks Carl,

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, Carl Lumma wrote:

> Hi Magnus,
>
> Sounds fine to me.
>
> I take it this is an example of the slow stuff?

Yup.

> Howabout an example of the fast stuff? (And why not write some of > both!)

Yes, if I had an example, I would like to post it. Since I wasn't very happy my fast stuff it I didn't actually kept any of it.

> I don't know what the speed issue has to do with JI (or tuning).
> Tenney is quoted as saying Western music is fast because it's out
> of tune, but I think this statement is wrong for multiple reasons.
> Outside of the fixed pitch instruments, probably the reverse is
> true.

Then I probably just need more experience with writing choir music... And,
I just thought of it, writing music on paper as opposed to using the computer.

-Magnus

> -Carl
>
>> Hi group,
>>
>> I am trying to compose SATB choir music in just intonation. I am
>> somewhat stuck or confused. I don't know if it relates to just
>> intonation or composing for a choir, or just my general composition
>> skills. I don't have any formal training in any of these subjects.
>> My problem is:
>>
>> My music tends to become very slow. And the vocal lines very simple,
>> especially the bass&tenor part. I am afraid this will bore singers
>> and listeners. But if I try to compose faster music, and make vocal
>> lines move more independent, I find the result sounding messy even
>> if it's still harmonious.
>>
>> Here is a piece I'm working on right now:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/clhob
>>
>> or equivalently:
>>
>> http://magnus.smartelectronix.com/examples/Magnus%20Jonsson%20-%20Walk
>> ing%20to%20Class%202.mp3
>>
>> It is a prototype recording, so please be forgiving on my singing and the
>> audio quality. And be forgiving on my amateur lyrics. Once I write
>> something that is good enough I'm hoping to get one of the university
>> choirs to sing my piece.
>>
>> I guess what I am asking is if there are any particular techniques that
>> other just intonation composers use, that could be of general help for me.
>> I've tried to google for information about just intonation composition,
>> and there's not a lot out there beyond the basics of ratios, and endless
>> tuning talk.
>>
>> Any advice?
>>
>> - Magnus Jonsson
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>