eventually

mbira tunings. . .

>
>This is true, though they tend to sound roughly diatonic to me.
>

Doesn't everything (with obvious exceptions) eventually?

hugh tracy remarked that he never heard a scale that sounded like the major scale in africa

Christopher Bailey wrote:

>mbira tunings. . . >
> >
>> >>This is true, though they tend to sound roughly diatonic to me.
>>
>> >>
>
>Doesn't everything (with obvious exceptions) eventually? >
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

>>>This is true, though they tend to sound roughly diatonic to me.
>>
>>Doesn't everything (with obvious exceptions) eventually?
>
>hugh tracy remarked that he never heard a scale that sounded like the
>major scale in africa

I've got several discs from Zimbabwe with clearly meantone[7] vocals.
Whether the mbira are closer to meantone[7] or mavila[7] I couldn't
say.

-Carl

but we hear this music in the context of what we grew up with

Carl Lumma wrote:

>>>>This is true, though they tend to sound roughly diatonic to me.
>>>> >>>>
>>>Doesn't everything (with obvious exceptions) eventually? >>> >>>
>>hugh tracy remarked that he never heard a scale that sounded like the >>major scale in africa
>> >>
>
>I've got several discs from Zimbabwe with clearly meantone[7] vocals.
>Whether the mbira are closer to meantone[7] or mavila[7] I couldn't
>say.
>
>-Carl
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

>>>>>This is true, though they tend to sound roughly diatonic to me.
>>>>>
>>>>Doesn't everything (with obvious exceptions) eventually?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>hugh tracy remarked that he never heard a scale that sounded like the
>>>major scale in africa
>>
>>I've got several discs from Zimbabwe with clearly meantone[7] vocals.
>>Whether the mbira are closer to meantone[7] or mavila[7] I couldn't
>>say.
>
>but we hear this music in the context of what we grew up with

Often the case, but not in this case -- it's really diatonic.

-Carl

it doesn't sound really diatonic to me , at least no more than any other 7 tone music like the chopi etc.

Carl Lumma wrote:

>>>>>>This is true, though they tend to sound roughly diatonic to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>Doesn't everything (with obvious exceptions) eventually? >>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>hugh tracy remarked that he never heard a scale that sounded like the >>>>major scale in africa
>>>> >>>>
>>>I've got several discs from Zimbabwe with clearly meantone[7] vocals.
>>>Whether the mbira are closer to meantone[7] or mavila[7] I couldn't
>>>say.
>>> >>>
>>but we hear this music in the context of what we grew up with
>> >>
>
>Often the case, but not in this case -- it's really diatonic.
>
>-Carl
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

>>>>>hugh tracy remarked that he never heard a scale that sounded like the
>>>>>major scale in africa
>>>>
>>>>I've got several discs from Zimbabwe with clearly meantone[7] vocals.
>>>>Whether the mbira are closer to meantone[7] or mavila[7] I couldn't
>>>>say.
>>>
>>>but we hear this music in the context of what we grew up with
>>
>>Often the case, but not in this case -- it's really diatonic.
>
>it doesn't sound really diatonic to me , at least no more than any other
>7 tone music like the chopi etc.

I'm sure there may be some variability. I'll post some mp3s when
I get a chance (read: January). If you could post some too, that
would be great!

-Carl

Kraig, how do you know you're listening to the same discs as Carl?

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...>
wrote:
>
> it doesn't sound really diatonic to me , at least no more than any
other
> 7 tone music like the chopi etc.
>
> Carl Lumma wrote:
>
> >>>>>>This is true, though they tend to sound roughly diatonic to
me.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>Doesn't everything (with obvious exceptions) eventually?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>hugh tracy remarked that he never heard a scale that sounded
like the
> >>>>major scale in africa
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>I've got several discs from Zimbabwe with clearly meantone[7]
vocals.
> >>>Whether the mbira are closer to meantone[7] or mavila[7] I
couldn't
> >>>say.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>but we hear this music in the context of what we grew up with
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Often the case, but not in this case -- it's really diatonic.
> >
> >-Carl
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Kraig Grady
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
> The Wandering Medicine Show
> KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>

not any more than i ca nassume that we would hear the same music the same.
If i take meta mavila out to 16 and use the 7 tone subset and play it l s s l s s s it sounds like 'major' to my ear even though it is anything but

Paul Erlich wrote:

>Kraig, how do you know you're listening to the same discs as Carl?
>
>
>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> >wrote:
> >
>>it doesn't sound really diatonic to me , at least no more than any >> >>
>other > >
>>7 tone music like the chopi etc.
>>
>>Carl Lumma wrote:
>>
>> >>
>>>>>>>>This is true, though they tend to sound roughly diatonic to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>me.
> >
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Doesn't everything (with obvious exceptions) eventually? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>hugh tracy remarked that he never heard a scale that sounded >>>>>> >>>>>>
>like the > >
>>>>>>major scale in africa
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>I've got several discs from Zimbabwe with clearly meantone[7] >>>>> >>>>>
>vocals.
> >
>>>>>Whether the mbira are closer to meantone[7] or mavila[7] I >>>>> >>>>>
>couldn't
> >
>>>>>say.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>but we hear this music in the context of what we grew up with
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>Often the case, but not in this case -- it's really diatonic.
>>>
>>>-Carl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>-- >>Kraig Grady
>>North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>>The Wandering Medicine Show
>>KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>>
>> >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...>
wrote:
>
> not any more than i ca nassume that we would hear the same music
the same.

Well, surely it's a different story if you're not listening to the
same examples vs. if you are! It seems you've already 'assumed' quite
a bit more than you should have here, Kraig. Why wouldn't it be
possible that some music from Zimbabwe has a Western influence while
other music there doesn't, for example? BTW, Carl has heard mavila
tunings before.

> If i take meta mavila out to 16 and use the 7 tone subset and play
it l
> s s l s s s it sounds like 'major' to my ear even though it is
anything but

Hold on -- I don't get it. Is this any different than taking meta
mavila out to 7 only (rather than out to 16 and then subsetting 7)?
If not, why aren't there more step sizes?

> Paul Erlich wrote:
>
> >Kraig, how do you know you're listening to the same discs as Carl?
> >
> >
> >--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady
<kraiggrady@a...>
> >wrote:
> >
> >
> >>it doesn't sound really diatonic to me , at least no more than
any
> >>
> >>
> >other
> >
> >
> >>7 tone music like the chopi etc.
> >>
> >>Carl Lumma wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>>>This is true, though they tend to sound roughly diatonic to
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >me.
> >
> >
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Doesn't everything (with obvious exceptions) eventually?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>hugh tracy remarked that he never heard a scale that sounded
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >like the
> >
> >
> >>>>>>major scale in africa
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>I've got several discs from Zimbabwe with clearly meantone[7]
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >vocals.
> >
> >
> >>>>>Whether the mbira are closer to meantone[7] or mavila[7] I
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >couldn't
> >
> >
> >>>>>say.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>but we hear this music in the context of what we grew up with
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>Often the case, but not in this case -- it's really diatonic.
> >>>
> >>>-Carl
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>--
> >>Kraig Grady
> >>North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
> >>The Wandering Medicine Show
> >>KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los
Angeles
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Kraig Grady
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
> The Wandering Medicine Show
> KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>

i am quite aware there is zimbawe music that has western influence.
My point that it is very easy for any 7 tone music to sound diatonic as even blackwell touches upon
so i am not sure if it tells us much.
i have noticed that even Kevin Volans has kept his tuning secret for his transcription for harpischords

Paul Erlich wrote:

>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> >wrote:
> >
>>not any more than i ca nassume that we would hear the same music >> >>
>the same.
>
>Well, surely it's a different story if you're not listening to the >same examples vs. if you are! It seems you've already 'assumed' quite >a bit more than you should have here, Kraig. Why wouldn't it be >possible that some music from Zimbabwe has a Western influence while >other music there doesn't, for example? BTW, Carl has heard mavila >tunings before.
>
> >
>> If i take meta mavila out to 16 and use the 7 tone subset and play >> >>
>it l > >
>>s s l s s s it sounds like 'major' to my ear even though it is >> >>
>anything but
>
>Hold on -- I don't get it. Is this any different than taking meta >mavila out to 7 only (rather than out to 16 and then subsetting 7)? >If not, why aren't there more step sizes?
>
>
> >
>>Paul Erlich wrote:
>>
>> >>
>>>Kraig, how do you know you're listening to the same discs as Carl?
>>>
>>>
>>>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady >>> >>>
><kraiggrady@a...> > >
>>>wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>>>it doesn't sound really diatonic to me , at least no more than >>>> >>>>
>any > >
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>other >>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>>>7 tone music like the chopi etc.
>>>>
>>>>Carl Lumma wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>>This is true, though they tend to sound roughly diatonic to >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>me.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Doesn't everything (with obvious exceptions) eventually? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>hugh tracy remarked that he never heard a scale that sounded >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>like the >>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>major scale in africa
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I've got several discs from Zimbabwe with clearly meantone[7] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>vocals.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>>>>>>Whether the mbira are closer to meantone[7] or mavila[7] I >>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>couldn't
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>>>>>>say.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>>but we hear this music in the context of what we grew up with
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>Often the case, but not in this case -- it's really diatonic.
>>>>>
>>>>>-Carl
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>-- >>>>Kraig Grady
>>>>North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>>>>The Wandering Medicine Show
>>>>KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los >>>> >>>>
>Angeles
> >
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>-- >>Kraig Grady
>>North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>>The Wandering Medicine Show
>>KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>>
>> >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

> If i take meta mavila out to 16 and use the 7 tone subset and play
> it l s s l s s s it sounds like 'major' to my ear even though it is
> anything but

You're referring to the case where s ~ 164 and L ~ 195 cents?
s sounds way too large to me to be confused with the meantone-type
diatonic.

-Carl

actually it is the one based on the recurrent series which i can get to at the moment.
but even the except for
without R&R on this page which is in meta mavila sounds quite "diatonic".
http://anaphoria.com/R&R.mp3 <http://anaphoria.com/R&R.mp3>

where as we tend to think of ourselves maybe hardwired for hearing 12 when possibly we might be more hard wired to hear 'diatonic"
or some sort of 7 which is all i have really been trying to touch upon.

the above is almost sold out down to the last 15. the middle cover (the one shown) is gone

Carl Lumma wrote:

>>If i take meta mavila out to 16 and use the 7 tone subset and play
>>it l s s l s s s it sounds like 'major' to my ear even though it is
>>anything but
>> >>
>
>You're referring to the case where s ~ 164 and L ~ 195 cents?
>s sounds way too large to me to be confused with the meantone-type
>diatonic.
>
>-Carl
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

>actually it is the one based on the recurrent series which i can get to
>at the moment.
> but even the except for
> without R&R on this page which is in meta mavila sounds quite "diatonic".
>http://anaphoria.com/R&R.mp3 <http://anaphoria.com/R&R.mp3>

If anybody had trouble with this, try

http://anaphoria.com/R%26R.mp3

That sounds great, pentatonic and clearly microtonal in the beginning
and end, more diatonic in the middle with the triads/arpeggios.

> where as we tend to think of ourselves maybe hardwired for hearing 12
> when possibly we might be more hard wired to hear 'diatonic" or some
> sort of 7 which is all i have really been trying to touch upon.

If we're hardwired to hear diatonic, the Chopi wouldn't even need
Western influence to have it in their music.

I don't know if we're hardwired, but I certainly do agree that non-
diatonic stuff can sound diatonic, *especially* to Western ears
like mine.

>the above is almost sold out down to the last 15. the middle
>cover (the one shown) is gone

What's that?

-Carl

Carl Lumma wrote:

>> or some
>>sort of 7 which is all i have really been trying to touch upon.
>> >>
>
>If we're hardwired to hear diatonic, the Chopi wouldn't even need
>Western influence to have it in their music.
> >
i think that is what i am assuming

> <>
> the above is almost sold out down to the last 15. the middle
> cover (the one shown) is gone

>
>What's that?
> >
the
without r&r
3"cds

>-Carl
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

>the
>without r&r
>3"cds

Oh, I have one!

-Carl