Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup makemicromusic New dance music

Hi,

Been a while, so here's a new one. I have very ambivalent feelings about how to introduce a piece: just post links, or give a lecture. For those that prefer the former, I'll put 'liner notes' further down.

Ten minute score for the dance company "forward to breath", to choreography by Terri Shipman. The piece is called "Tidal Falls""

http://www.microtonal.org/mp3/tidal_falls.ogg (14mb) (better quality)
http://www.microtonal.org/mp3/tidal_falls.mp3 (10mb)

One other thing: the last 2 minutes is dedicated to my friend Jacky Ligon, who is a big inspiration and driving force for me!

*****

Tidal Falls - This one was interesting, as I got called very late (4 weeks before performance) to create a score for a dance piece that already existed. The piece was metered, and has both metric and tempo changes in sections; therefore, the bulk of the piece already had an existing tempo/meter format. Flowing/falling water is the theme of the piece, including an actual working 'fountain' on stage that dancers go into. Water sounds were one of the requests.

I looked at this piece as a good place to try getting better at some of my toolset, especially in seeing what happened when I started working with a lot of multiple instances of soft instruments - how far could I task my poor little DAW? The main compositional/recording/mixing application is Sonar 4. The instruments and effects, along with number of instances of them, were:

Instrument
----------
RMIV (3) (includes some custom instrumental samples, water, etc)
Rhino 2.0 (7)
z3ta+ (3)
TTS-1 (2)
Wusikstation (2)
Tera 2.0 (1)
ChineeKong (7)

FX
--
Glaceverb (2)
RoomVerb M2 (5)
SonitusFX EQ (2)

I still have a *lot* to learn about mixing, and this was a good one to start getting deeper into that. This is also a "work in progress", so I'll have opportunities to revise, remix, etc.

As for tuning, they are fairly subtle: I've used Lou Harrison's tuning for "Cinna", a custom 12 note tuning I've been using for a while based on a Harrison scale, and there are sections in 12tet - I just didn't have time to settle on the right modal tunings to use in there, even though I knew there were changes I would make to the tuning. One of the nice things about this setup is that I can go back, unfreeze synths, change the tuning (and/or notes), and remix.

I guess that's about it. It wasn't totally easy, but this project was a watershed for me, as I'm now much more comfortable about what I can get accomplished. A couple of the sketches that got thrown to the side during this are going to bear fruit for more pieces.

Cheers,
Jon

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@...>

🔗Jon Wild <wild@...>

🔗Jon Szanto <jszanto@...>

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@...>

>{you wrote...}
>>I should hope the ogg sounds better -- it's 40% larger!
>
>Yeah, I figured if it has a better compression ratio I'll use it for
>higher quality settings! :) Should I just always do them the same, and
>allow people to download a smaller ogg?

I guess it depends on the level of fidelity you want. If you want to
always achieve something that sounds as good as a wav file, the mp3
should be bigger than the ogg, but neither will be 128kbps. If you
want to have something for people for whom downloading > 128kbps is
a burden, then use ogg for the low bitrate, as it will sound better.

-Carl

🔗Rick McGowan <rick@...>

Jon Wild asked,

> how I can add a decent reverb to a .wav file.

If you're on Windows... Try CoolEdit, if it's still around on the web.
There used to be free demo version that worked well for this kind of thing,
and it will write to files.

> I'm hoping there's a utility I can download that will read a
> track from a CD and be able to output that track with a good
> quality configurable reverb

If you're on Windows, try a recent version of the free Windows Media
Player. It can "rip" tracks from a CD and write to disk. Then you can use
CoolEdit or whatever to add reverb and re-write to disk.

Personally... I use Nero to read/write CDs, and Adobe Audition, which is
the successor to CoolEdit.

And, BTW if you're on a Mac, there are other people on the list who can
help, I'm sure.

Rick

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

i look forward to downloading this later. i am still quite behind as i haven't gotten to christophers piece yet either!

Jon Szanto wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Been a while, so here's a new one. I have very ambivalent feelings about >how to introduce a piece: just post links, or give a lecture. For those >that prefer the former, I'll put 'liner notes' further down.
>
>Ten minute score for the dance company "forward to breath", to choreography >by Terri Shipman. The piece is called "Tidal Falls""
>
>http://www.microtonal.org/mp3/tidal_falls.ogg (14mb) (better quality)
>http://www.microtonal.org/mp3/tidal_falls.mp3 (10mb)
>
>One other thing: the last 2 minutes is dedicated to my friend Jacky Ligon, >who is a big inspiration and driving force for me!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>*****
>
>Tidal Falls - This one was interesting, as I got called very late (4 weeks >before performance) to create a score for a dance piece that already >existed. The piece was metered, and has both metric and tempo changes in >sections; therefore, the bulk of the piece already had an existing >tempo/meter format. Flowing/falling water is the theme of the piece, >including an actual working 'fountain' on stage that dancers go into. Water >sounds were one of the requests.
>
>I looked at this piece as a good place to try getting better at some of my >toolset, especially in seeing what happened when I started working with a >lot of multiple instances of soft instruments - how far could I task my >poor little DAW? The main compositional/recording/mixing application is >Sonar 4. The instruments and effects, along with number of instances of >them, were:
>
>Instrument
>----------
>RMIV (3) (includes some custom instrumental samples, water, etc)
>Rhino 2.0 (7)
>z3ta+ (3)
>TTS-1 (2)
>Wusikstation (2)
>Tera 2.0 (1)
>ChineeKong (7)
>
>FX
>--
>Glaceverb (2)
>RoomVerb M2 (5)
>SonitusFX EQ (2)
>
>I still have a *lot* to learn about mixing, and this was a good one to >start getting deeper into that. This is also a "work in progress", so I'll >have opportunities to revise, remix, etc.
>
>As for tuning, they are fairly subtle: I've used Lou Harrison's tuning for >"Cinna", a custom 12 note tuning I've been using for a while based on a >Harrison scale, and there are sections in 12tet - I just didn't have time >to settle on the right modal tunings to use in there, even though I knew >there were changes I would make to the tuning. One of the nice things about >this setup is that I can go back, unfreeze synths, change the tuning >(and/or notes), and remix.
>
>I guess that's about it. It wasn't totally easy, but this project was a >watershed for me, as I'm now much more comfortable about what I can get >accomplished. A couple of the sketches that got thrown to the side during >this are going to bear fruit for more pieces.
>
>Cheers,
>Jon >
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

great stuff JS!
especially the ending. I am sure Jacky is touched as anyone would be greatly honored to be associated with the last two minutes in any way.
i like how the water turned in a rhythmic part at the beginning.
Sampled?

Jon Szanto wrote:

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗Jon Wild <wild@...>

🔗Jon Szanto <jszanto@...>

Jon,

{you wrote...}
>Jon - if you do get the chance to write about free options for this, I >will probably need to do this again at some point after 30 days have >passed, so feel free to let me/the list know. (Adobe Audition is $300)

Aha, I *knew* I could do it!

I originally thought of Audacity, which has gotten good marks for not only being free, but supporting 3 major computing platforms (Win, Mac, Linux). However, even though they 'support' VST plugs, it is somewhat funky. So I kept looking, and...

Found a nice, completely free multi-track audio recorder/sequencer/mixer that completely supports VST plugins (so we have access to some very nice effects plugs in the freeware community). Point your brower to the Krystal Audio Engine:

http://www.kreatives.org/kristal/index.php?section=details

It was a completely painless install, and on startup you have multiple tracks of audio, a mixer, and a transport control bar. But before you run the program, you next want to go to two places; since you initially asked about adding reverb, there is a really, really nice convolution reverb called "GlaceVerb" from a company called DaSample:

http://www.dasample.com/index.php?show=glaceverb

Mind you, it is a quality free product from a company that develops commercial software. Also, when I was investigating VST support in Audacity, I came across a pack of free plugs that you can use with that program that contains (among a lot of other interesting looking plugs that I didn't try out) another nice verb called Anwida Soft DX Reverb Lite:

http://www.tsof.edu.au/resources/sound/installers/Plug-Ins.zip

As with the GlaceVerb files, you simply unzip this to the "plugins" directory below the Krystal directory. (note that Krystal has a few plugs that come with it) As with most VST plugs, both Glace and Anwida have a drop-down list at the top of the respective GUI that will give you access to many presets, like 'medium room warm' or 'large bright space'.

I'll leave it to you to learn to work Krystal, but you simply open a file in the first audio track, and then go to the mixer and load one of the plugs in a slot right at the top of the console. Tweak to your hearts content, and that's it.

I also remember that you wanted to extract audio files from a CD; there are millions of apps like this, probably no need to look further than FreeRip:

http://www.mgshareware.com/frmmain.shtml

I hope this helps you out, let me know if you futz around with this if you have any problems! I also want you to know that I don't operate with just free/shareware, and I have lots of commercial apps at my disposal. But I continue to be amazed and delighted at the tools out there for musicians that can come at little or no cost, and that is why it is fun to do exploration like this.

Cheers,
Jon

🔗Jon Szanto <jszanto@...>

KG,

{you wrote...}
>great stuff JS!

Aw, thanks man - you know your ears mean a lot to me!

>especially the ending...

You know, that is the definition of serendipity. The end section came very late, and was the only part (save for the first 10 seconds) that could be anything I wanted, no meter, etc. I saved that for late in the process, feeling stressed about getting out the stuff they needed to count. I'm definitely going to take that direction in some upcoming music I write just for _me_.

>i like how the water turned in a rhythmic part at the beginning. Sampled?

Yes, in a way. I actually pulled some of the splashs from a video of a performance we did of Tan Dun's "Concerto for Water Percussion", and also trolled the net for water drips, etc. I did some tweaking of the various clips, edited them as one-shot samples, and loaded them into a software drum machine called RMIV. Since what I wanted was a variety of sounds, not one sound pitched on different keys, this worked well. I added a particular kind of reverb to give it a feel of the sound bouncing off of rocks or walls instead of just a room reverb.

In all honesty, I would have backed away on the water quite a bit, and not done as much rhythmic stuff, if it were just a piece of music. But this needed to facilitate the events and moods on-stage, so one tries to be accomodating.

Thanks Kraig, your 'dedicated' piece will be coming down the road!

Cheers,
Jon

🔗Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jon Szanto <jszanto@c...>
wrote:
> Ten minute score for the dance company "forward to breath", to
choreography
> by Terri Shipman. The piece is called "Tidal Falls""
>
> http://www.microtonal.org/mp3/tidal_falls.ogg (14mb) (better
quality)
> http://www.microtonal.org/mp3/tidal_falls.mp3 (10mb)
>

***It seems this will be quite an effective dance piece, since it
goes through various tempos and moods, and I'm certain that's just
what the dancers will want. Congrats!

P.S. It sounds like it could be made pretty easily into a "live
percussion" version as well...

🔗Jon Szanto <jszanto@...>

🔗George Henry <cruithnelaluna@...>

🔗Jon Wild <wild@...>

Jon - great post. Thanks, on behalf of all who consult this post and find better tools than they otherwise would have! --Jon Wild

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005, Jon Szanto wrote:

> Found a nice, completely free multi-track audio recorder/sequencer/mixer
>
> http://www.kreatives.org/kristal/index.php?section=details
>
> there is a really, really nice convolution reverb called "GlaceVerb" > from a company called DaSample:
>
> http://www.dasample.com/index.php?show=glaceverb
>
> another nice verb called Anwida Soft DX Reverb Lite:
>
> http://www.tsof.edu.au/resources/sound/installers/Plug-Ins.zip

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@...>

Jon Szanto wrote:
> Been a while, so here's a new one. I have very ambivalent feelings about
> how to introduce a piece: just post links, or give a lecture. For those
> that prefer the former, I'll put 'liner notes' further down.
>
> Ten minute score for the dance company "forward to breath", to
> choreography by Terri Shipman. The piece is called "Tidal Falls""
>
> http://www.microtonal.org/mp3/tidal_falls.ogg (14mb) (better quality)
> http://www.microtonal.org/mp3/tidal_falls.mp3 (10mb)
...

Hi Jon,

I've started the download. With luck, it'll be waiting for me
to listen to in the morning! :-)

I'm always fascinated by different composers approaches to
the rhythmic challenges of dance, so have been waiting with
bated breath since you first announced this project, to see
what you do. And now that I know it involves that very fluid
stuff, why, I think you've been handed a wonderfully
difficult challenge! :-)

Roll on tomorrow!

Regards,
Yahya

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: 25/8/05

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

On Thursday 25 August 2005 10:22 am, Jon Szanto wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Been a while, so here's a new one. I have very ambivalent feelings about
> how to introduce a piece: just post links, or give a lecture. For those
> that prefer the former, I'll put 'liner notes' further down.
>
> Ten minute score for the dance company "forward to breath", to choreography
> by Terri Shipman. The piece is called "Tidal Falls""
>
> http://www.microtonal.org/mp3/tidal_falls.ogg (14mb) (better quality)
> http://www.microtonal.org/mp3/tidal_falls.mp3 (10mb)

I love it! I love the complex stereo ear candy, which Andy Hasenpflug (the
other half of Divide by Pi) and I call 'glurpies'. I love the gamelan slow
beating at 1:30 or therabouts, the thirds around 2:40. Generally, the more
acoustic and organic the timbres sounded, the more I was really into it. I
like how it picked up at 4:55 into a really neat percussion ostinato jam,
it's very effective not to hear hardcore pitch at times. And when the 'music
box sound' comes in at 5:40, it's really tasty. What's the sound at 6:25?
Very nice!

Overall, bravo! I'm looking forward to more from you (see below)

> One other thing: the last 2 minutes is dedicated to my friend Jacky Ligon,
> who is a big inspiration and driving force for me!
> *****
>
> Tidal Falls - This one was interesting, as I got called very late (4 weeks
> before performance) to create a score for a dance piece that already
> existed. The piece was metered, and has both metric and tempo changes in
> sections; therefore, the bulk of the piece already had an existing
> tempo/meter format. Flowing/falling water is the theme of the piece,
> including an actual working 'fountain' on stage that dancers go into. Water
> sounds were one of the requests.
>
> I looked at this piece as a good place to try getting better at some of my
> toolset,

I say, you've succeeded admirably!

> As for tuning, they are fairly subtle: I've used Lou Harrison's tuning for
> "Cinna", a custom 12 note tuning I've been using for a while based on a
> Harrison scale,

Care to share a scala file?

> I guess that's about it. It wasn't totally easy, but this project was a
> watershed for me, as I'm now much more comfortable about what I can get
> accomplished. A couple of the sketches that got thrown to the side during
> this are going to bear fruit for more pieces.

Looking forward to much more...can't wait!

Cheers,
Aaron.

🔗Jon Szanto <jszanto@...>

Hi Aaron,

As always, thanks for your dedicated and detailed listening - you have good muso ears, always helpful for getting a perspective!

{you wrote...}
>I love it! I love the complex stereo ear candy, which Andy Hasenpflug (the
>other half of Divide by Pi) and I call 'glurpies'.

If it isn't trademarked, I'll use it too.

>Generally, the more acoustic and organic the timbres sounded, the more I >was really into it.

I'm so early into building a library of created sounds, and this one had to be done pretty quickly. I'll eventually get more of a meld, optimally finding a personal palette that lands in the nether world where one doesn't *necessarily* know what is acoustic and what is electronically crafted. Part of the impetus for this is to develop pieces that can be performed along with acoustic live playing, allowing one to wander from one sound world to the next. In my dreams, of course. ;)

>I like how it picked up at 4:55 into a really neat percussion ostinato >jam, it's very effective not to hear hardcore pitch at times.

A lot of the structure and effects were dictated by the pre-existing choreography, and the main 'drummy' section had been done to live hand drums, so the movements were pretty body-weighted, hence I felt a need to lay a drum bed for them to propel themselves with.

>And when the 'music box sound' comes in at 5:40, it's really tasty. What's >the sound at 6:25? Very nice!

Hmmm... OK, that's a vibraphone sound from the TTS-1 synth that comes bundled with Sonar, tweaked EQ-wise and moderately chorused. I'm waiting for an update on an interesting app for capturing samples called One Shot Recorder. The drag of the TTS-1, which has some awfully nice sounds, is that I can't readily apply tunings to it (hence this section being in 12tet). I hope to use OSR to capture some of those sounds, as well as some of my favorites from my hardware days, and then use either CronoX3 or Wusikstation (once I help them debug their .tun support implementation) to go to better intonational worlds.

> > As for tuning, they are fairly subtle: I've used Lou Harrison's tuning for
> > "Cinna", a custom 12 note tuning I've been using for a while based on a
> > Harrison scale,
>
>Care to share a scala file?

It's right from the Scala collection, something like harrison_cinna.scl/tun

>Looking forward to much more...can't wait!

I've left the building (noun and verb) and am starting on the path. No need for GPS, I'll use my ears! :)

Thanks, pal.

Cheers,
Jon

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@...>

Jon Szanto wrote:
...
> Ten minute score for the dance company "forward to breath", to
choreography
> by Terri Shipman. The piece is called "Tidal Falls""
>
> http://www.microtonal.org/mp3/tidal_falls.ogg (14mb) (better quality)
> http://www.microtonal.org/mp3/tidal_falls.mp3 (10mb)
...

Hi Jon,

Had a good listen last night. Glad I waited till the house
was quiet! This music is very subtle. I enjoyed it a lot
and will be playing it again. I especially like the transitions
from one mood or dynamic to another. As the best of "art
glass" can be simultaneously strong and delicate, so can
this "art music".

Thank you for sharing it with us! I look forward to hearing
more of your music.

Regards,
Yahya

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/84 - Release Date: 29/8/05

🔗Jon Szanto <jszanto@...>

Yahya,

One of the most interesting aspects of this journey (music) is that when one shares it, one never quite knows (even with friendly ears or a known audience) quite what the reaction will be. I'm always scared to have a new piece heard (not to mention absolutely petrified the first time I presented it to the dancers), and close my eyes and wait. So...

{you wrote...}
>I especially like the transitions from one mood or dynamic to another. As >the best of "art glass" can be simultaneously strong and delicate, so can >this "art music".

Two things strike me about this, very important to me:

1. You have mentioned, on other threads about downloading, just how arduous this is for you. To know that you took the time and effort to download a rather large music file makes me feel special.

2. What a lovely comparison and turn of phrase! We have a woman here in town whose husband was a close artistic friend and associate of glass artisan Dale Chihuly:

http://www.chihuly.com/

...and if I could ever find the colors in music that could parallel the beauty of relected, refracted, and transmitted light that his work 'emits', I'd be a happy human! So she has a fair amount of his large works on display, and I often think that this is the kind of reason I explore microtonality, as well as timbral exploration - so that I can find more colors, and more colorful manifestations, in my music.

Thanks, Yahya.

Cheers,
Jon

🔗Paul Erlich <paul@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Krister Johnson
<aaron@a...> wrote:
> On Thursday 25 August 2005 10:22 am, Jon Szanto wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Been a while, so here's a new one. I have very ambivalent
feelings about
> > how to introduce a piece: just post links, or give a lecture. For
those
> > that prefer the former, I'll put 'liner notes' further down.
> >
> > Ten minute score for the dance company "forward to breath", to
choreography
> > by Terri Shipman. The piece is called "Tidal Falls""
> >
> > http://www.microtonal.org/mp3/tidal_falls.ogg (14mb) (better
quality)
> > http://www.microtonal.org/mp3/tidal_falls.mp3 (10mb)
>
> I love it! I love the complex stereo ear candy, which Andy
Hasenpflug (the
> other half of Divide by Pi) and I call 'glurpies'. I love the
gamelan slow
> beating at 1:30 or therabouts, the thirds around 2:40. Generally,
the more
> acoustic and organic the timbres sounded, the more I was really
into it. I
> like how it picked up at 4:55 into a really neat percussion
ostinato jam,
> it's very effective not to hear hardcore pitch at times. And when
the 'music
> box sound' comes in at 5:40, it's really tasty. What's the sound at
6:25?
> Very nice!
>
> Overall, bravo! I'm looking forward to more from you (see below)
>
> > One other thing: the last 2 minutes is dedicated to my friend
Jacky Ligon,
> > who is a big inspiration and driving force for me!
> > *****
> >
> > Tidal Falls - This one was interesting, as I got called very late
(4 weeks
> > before performance) to create a score for a dance piece that
already
> > existed. The piece was metered, and has both metric and tempo
changes in
> > sections; therefore, the bulk of the piece already had an existing
> > tempo/meter format. Flowing/falling water is the theme of the
piece,
> > including an actual working 'fountain' on stage that dancers go
into. Water
> > sounds were one of the requests.
> >
> > I looked at this piece as a good place to try getting better at
some of my
> > toolset,
>
> I say, you've succeeded admirably!
>
>
> > As for tuning, they are fairly subtle: I've used Lou Harrison's
tuning for
> > "Cinna", a custom 12 note tuning I've been using for a while
based on a
> > Harrison scale,
>
> Care to share a scala file?
>
> > I guess that's about it. It wasn't totally easy, but this project
was a
> > watershed for me, as I'm now much more comfortable about what I
can get
> > accomplished. A couple of the sketches that got thrown to the
side during
> > this are going to bear fruit for more pieces.
>
> Looking forward to much more...can't wait!

I second that sentiment! Very, very promising, considering the tight
circumstances!

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@...>

Jon Szanto wrote:
>
> Yahya,
>
> One of the most interesting aspects of this journey (music) is that when
> one shares it, one never quite knows (even with friendly ears or a known
> audience) quite what the reaction will be. I'm always scared to have a new
> piece heard (not to mention absolutely petrified the first time I
presented
> it to the dancers), and close my eyes and wait. So...
>
> {you wrote...}
> >I especially like the transitions from one mood or dynamic to another.
As
> >the best of "art glass" can be simultaneously strong and delicate, so can
> >this "art music".
>
> Two things strike me about this, very important to me:
>
> 1. You have mentioned, on other threads about downloading, just how
arduous
> this is for you. To know that you took the time and effort to download a
> rather large music file makes me feel special.
>
> 2. What a lovely comparison and turn of phrase! We have a woman here in
> town whose husband was a close artistic friend and associate of glass
> artisan Dale Chihuly:
>
> http://www.chihuly.com/
>
> ...and if I could ever find the colors in music that could parallel the
> beauty of relected, refracted, and transmitted light that his work
'emits',
> I'd be a happy human! So she has a fair amount of his large works on
> display, and I often think that this is the kind of reason I explore
> microtonality, as well as timbral exploration - so that I can find more
> colors, and more colorful manifestations, in my music.
>
> Thanks, Yahya.

Jon,
And thanks to you for the music. :-)

I've just opened Dale Chihuly's site, and am suitably impressed.
The opening image is visual music. Ahhh! Thought the name was
familiar - the second image from the Kew exhibition shows
coloured glass bubbles floating under a fountain -
http://www.chihuly.com/installations/kew/overview02.html
- I've seen this work before on a cable show; my wife and I were
spellbound. Thank you for the link. I'm sure to return for a
longer look.

Regards,
Yahya

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/84 - Release Date: 29/8/05