Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup makemicromusic moog keyboard

the technology just wasn't there to really get it to work well and was abandoned as a project. I believe it was simple on off switches of some kind but the wiring had problems. this is about all i know.
the scale it was meant to play is on page 6 of http://anaphoria.com/trans22.PDF
which put the project back in 1966. shows you how little progress has been made

threesixesinarow wrote:

>Does it light up for different patterns and how are the key guides?
>Clark
>
>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> >wrote:
> >
>>Thought it was a good time to post a link to a keyboard that Robert >> >>
>Moog > >
>>had built for Erv and Gary David. To show how far reaching his work >> >>
>was.
> >
>>http://anaphoria.com/moogkeyboard01.JPG
>>http://anaphoria.com/moogkeyboard02.JPG
>>
>>Kraig Grady
>>North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>>The Wandering Medicine Show
>>KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>> >>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗threesixesinarow <CACCOLA@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

possibly so. I will take a look at it in the next day or so (Erv is about 2.5 miles to east of where i am and i have to deliver some other stuff)

threesixesinarow wrote:

>The way it looks, the two guide pins are like from Poole's. Like this?
>
>/makemicromusic/files/keyboard/
>isopoole.gif
> >
>>the technology just wasn't there to really get it to work well and >>was abandoned as a project. I believe it was simple on off switches >>of some kind but the wiring had problems. this is about all i know.
>>the scale it was meant to play is on page 6 of >>http://anaphoria.com/trans22.PDF
>>which put the project back in 1966. shows you how little progress >> >>
>
>
> >
>>>>http://anaphoria.com/moogkeyboard01.JPG
>>>>http://anaphoria.com/moogkeyboard02.JPG
>>>> >>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

I just looked at the instrument. there was one short post that went into the body that was nothing but a guide post , the other went all the way through to the boom and had a spring attached around the post that pushed it upward back into position.

It was a simple on off switch that moog attavch to his own synth ias i understand to test it out. the problem as i understand it is that the screws going into the plastic were stripped in some cases as is easily done with this material

threesixesinarow wrote:

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗threesixesinarow <CACCOLA@...>

> I just looked at the instrument. there was one short post that went
> into the body that was nothing but a guide post , the other went all
> the way through to the boom and had a spring attached around the
> post that pushed it upward back into position.
>
> It was a simple on off switch that moog attavch to his own synth
> ias i understand to test it out. the problem as i understand it is
> that the screws going into the plastic were stripped in some cases
> as is easily done with this material

How far do they go down and do you know if there is any binding? Seems
like you could use epoxy anchors for screws, like you can get for
brick walls that don't tap so good if you wanted to fix it.

Clark

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

I guess Robert didn't know about these at the time and Erv mentioned the same thing earlier.
It appears that Gary Dauod will be trying to get it working again, but let us see.
to see this made in 1966 set me off on a tirade
it seems to me a simple midi bosanquet should be possible , cheap, or an easy set of instructions say to take apart an existing one.

Unfortunately since we have none, keyboard electronic microtonal music has been rather limited to the most simple arrays that places it in Kindergarten with what can be done, even compared to the acoustic instruments on hand.

it says allot for those who refused to be limited by the crumbs the companies throw at them. it takes allot of persistence to do say what Kyle Gann does with a 12 tone keyboard.
i could not do easily what i did with a few instruments 30 years ago which means if i waited, none of these pieces would exist, or worse i would have to concede to thinking like an auto mechanic to do it.
Could someone write poetry , if they had to go through what we need to to make a pencil?
the answer is no, and sums up the present predicament.
threesixesinarow wrote:

>>I just looked at the instrument. there was one short post that went >>into the body that was nothing but a guide post , the other went all >>the way through to the boom and had a spring attached around the >>post that pushed it upward back into position.
>>
>> It was a simple on off switch that moog attavch to his own synth >>ias i understand to test it out. the problem as i understand it is >>that the screws going into the plastic were stripped in some cases >>as is easily done with this material
>> >>
>
>How far do they go down and do you know if there is any binding? Seems >like you could use epoxy anchors for screws, like you can get for >brick walls that don't tap so good if you wanted to fix it.
>
>Clark
>
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@...>

Agree 100%.

-Carl

At 04:53 PM 8/24/2005, you wrote:
>I guess Robert didn't know about these at the time and Erv mentioned the
>same thing earlier.
> It appears that Gary Dauod will be trying to get it working again, but
>let us see.
> to see this made in 1966 set me off on a tirade
> it seems to me a simple midi bosanquet should be possible , cheap, or
>an easy set of instructions say to take apart an existing one.
>
> Unfortunately since we have none, keyboard electronic microtonal music
>has been rather limited to the most simple arrays that places it in
>Kindergarten with what can be done, even compared to the acoustic
>instruments on hand.
>
>it says allot for those who refused to be limited by the crumbs the
>companies throw at them. it takes allot of persistence to do say what
>Kyle Gann does with a 12 tone keyboard.
>i could not do easily what i did with a few instruments 30 years ago
>which means if i waited, none of these pieces would exist, or worse i
>would have to concede to thinking like an auto mechanic to do it.
>Could someone write poetry , if they had to go through what we need to
>to make a pencil?
> the answer is no, and sums up the present predicament.
>
>
>threesixesinarow wrote:
>
>>>I just looked at the instrument. there was one short post that went
>>>into the body that was nothing but a guide post , the other went all
>>>the way through to the boom and had a spring attached around the
>>>post that pushed it upward back into position.
>>>
>>> It was a simple on off switch that moog attavch to his own synth
>>>ias i understand to test it out. the problem as i understand it is
>>>that the screws going into the plastic were stripped in some cases
>>>as is easily done with this material
>>>
>>>
>>
>>How far do they go down and do you know if there is any binding? Seems
>>like you could use epoxy anchors for screws, like you can get for
>>brick walls that don't tap so good if you wanted to fix it.
>>
>>Clark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>Kraig Grady
>North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
>The Wandering Medicine Show
>KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

🔗threesixesinarow <CACCOLA@...>

Technology for electric keyboard instruments, that don't require
specific arrangement of sound makers and keys is older than electric
or electropneumatic organs and more like a wheatstone abc, or earlier,
in a carillon it looks like a leyden jar device described in 1753 with
wires for each letter (reading about accordions I got fascinated about
telegraph history and some of the punching machines look just like
music instruments)

</makemicromusic/files/keyboard/
housetel.jpg>

Pencil is easy, Thoreau knew how and what is wrong with auto mechanic?
The same way about instruments I also think about tools used making
them, otherwise just to make them like car service with new stock
parts.
Clark

> it seems to me a simple midi bosanquet should be possible , cheap,
or
> an easy set of instructions say to take apart an existing one.
>
> Unfortunately since we have none, keyboard electronic microtonal
music
> has been rather limited to the most simple arrays that places it in
> Kindergarten with what can be done, even compared to the acoustic
> instruments on hand.
>
> it says allot for those who refused to be limited by the crumbs the
> companies throw at them. it takes allot of persistence to do say
what
> Kyle Gann does with a 12 tone keyboard.
> i could not do easily what i did with a few instruments 30 years ago
> which means if i waited, none of these pieces would exist, or worse
i
> would have to concede to thinking like an auto mechanic to do it.
> Could someone write poetry , if they had to go through what we need
to
> to make a pencil?

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@...>

Kraig Grady wrote:
...

> it says allot for those who refused to be limited by the crumbs the
> companies throw at them. it takes allot of persistence to do say what
> Kyle Gann does with a 12 tone keyboard.
> i could not do easily what i did with a few instruments 30 years ago
> which means if i waited, none of these pieces would exist, or worse i
> would have to concede to thinking like an auto mechanic to do it.
> Could someone write poetry , if they had to go through what we need to
> to make a pencil?
> the answer is no, and sums up the present predicament.

Carl Lumma wrote:
> Agree 100%.

Hi guys,

What really surprises me is that we have so little to show in the way
of a practical microtonalist's keyboard. Have we actually made any
progress at all since Bosanquet? 8-0

In the 60s I played around with some cheap surplus "piano-key
switches". They were designed for operating reel-to-reel tape
recorders. I was hoping to make something that would let me realise
a tuning which was a theoretical favourite of mine at the time.
Creating the tone oscillators was simple enough, but I wanted
something I could play in real time with no worse "touch" than
our old pedal harmonium. Sadly, I had to trade off reliability against
sensitivity, and I never did get anything useful out of it.

Have any of you had hands-on experience with a microtonal keyboard
- preferably with good touch attributes? (velocity sensitivity and
aftertouch).

Regards,
Yahya

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: 25/8/05

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

I don't think we need to go beyond the generalized keyboard since first we need to catch up with it.

I could care less about velocity sensitivity as my concern is with pitch over volume which is easily adjustable. the velocity thing is driving the price up. i just as soon forget it for now as waiting for a keyboard when i am 65 i don't look forward too. I am interested in making music right now and that is what i am going to do
.
All my microtonal keyboard work has been done with estey organs.
no velocity sensitivity there at all, but with the sustain you can do two parts with one hand and actually hear it as such which doesn't ever really work with the piano
Yahya Abdal-Aziz wrote:

>Kraig Grady wrote:
>...
>
> >
>>it says allot for those who refused to be limited by the crumbs the >>companies throw at them. it takes allot of persistence to do say what >>Kyle Gann does with a 12 tone keyboard.
>>i could not do easily what i did with a few instruments 30 years ago >>which means if i waited, none of these pieces would exist, or worse i >>would have to concede to thinking like an auto mechanic to do it.
>>Could someone write poetry , if they had to go through what we need to >>to make a pencil?
>> the answer is no, and sums up the present predicament.
>> >>
> >Carl Lumma wrote:
> >
>>Agree 100%.
>> >>
>
>
>Hi guys,
>
>What really surprises me is that we have so little to show in the way
>of a practical microtonalist's keyboard. Have we actually made any >progress at all since Bosanquet? 8-0
>
>In the 60s I played around with some cheap surplus "piano-key >switches". They were designed for operating reel-to-reel tape >recorders. I was hoping to make something that would let me realise >a tuning which was a theoretical favourite of mine at the time.
>Creating the tone oscillators was simple enough, but I wanted >something I could play in real time with no worse "touch" than
>our old pedal harmonium. Sadly, I had to trade off reliability against
>sensitivity, and I never did get anything useful out of it.
>
>Have any of you had hands-on experience with a microtonal keyboard
>- preferably with good touch attributes? (velocity sensitivity and
>aftertouch).
>
>Regards,
>Yahya
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗Carl Lumma <ekin@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

I really think it is a matter of blasting off with the next stop finding subtler ingenious ways to travel to the stars

Carl Lumma wrote:

>>I don't think we need to go beyond the generalized keyboard since first >>we need to catch up with it.
>>
>>I could care less about velocity sensitivity as my concern is with pitch >>over volume which is easily adjustable. the velocity thing is driving >>the price up.
>> >>
>
>That's right. Walk before run.
>
>-Carl
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@...>

Kraig Grady wrote:
> I don't think we need to go beyond the generalized keyboard since first
> we need to catch up with it.
>
> I could care less about velocity sensitivity as my concern is with pitch
> over volume which is easily adjustable. the velocity thing is driving
> the price up. i just as soon forget it for now as waiting for a keyboard
> when i am 65 i don't look forward too. I am interested in making music
> right now and that is what i am going to do
> .
> All my microtonal keyboard work has been done with estey organs.
> no velocity sensitivity there at all, but with the sustain you can do
> two parts with one hand and actually hear it as such which doesn't ever
> really work with the piano
>
>
> Yahya Abdal-Aziz wrote:
> >Kraig Grady wrote:
> >...
> >>it says allot for those who refused to be limited by the crumbs the
> >>companies throw at them. it takes allot of persistence to do say what
> >>Kyle Gann does with a 12 tone keyboard.
> >>i could not do easily what i did with a few instruments 30 years ago
> >>which means if i waited, none of these pieces would exist, or worse i
> >>would have to concede to thinking like an auto mechanic to do it.
> >>Could someone write poetry , if they had to go through what we need to
> >>to make a pencil?
> >> the answer is no, and sums up the present predicament.
> >
> >Carl Lumma wrote:
> > >Agree 100%.
> >
> >Hi guys,
> >What really surprises me is that we have so little to show in the way
> >of a practical microtonalist's keyboard. Have we actually made any
> >progress at all since Bosanquet? 8-0
> > >
>In the 60s I played around with some cheap surplus "piano-key
> >switches". They were designed for operating reel-to-reel tape
> >recorders. I was hoping to make something that would let me realise
> >a tuning which was a theoretical favourite of mine at the time.
> >Creating the tone oscillators was simple enough, but I wanted
> >something I could play in real time with no worse "touch" than
> >our old pedal harmonium. Sadly, I had to trade off reliability against
> >sensitivity, and I never did get anything useful out of it.
> >
> >Have any of you had hands-on experience with a microtonal keyboard
> >- preferably with good touch attributes? (velocity sensitivity and
> >aftertouch).

Kraig,

I looked up the Estey company website, only to find that it's for
a museum! Seems they haven't been manufacturing anything for
quite a while now. But back when they did, they made organs, pianos
and many other instruments. I've never (knowingly) seen an Estey
instrument in Australia.

You wrote: "I am interested in making music right now and that
is what i am going to do." I couldn't agree more! So I probably
won't be using an Estey.

When you wrote: "All my microtonal keyboard work has been done
with estey organs", were you talking of their pipe organs? 8-0 Most
importantly, I guess, how did you retune the organ?

One more question - what do you mean by "the generalized keyboard"?

Regards,
Yahya

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: 25/8/05

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@...>

Carl Lumma wrote, in agreement with Kraig Grady:
> > I don't think we need to go beyond the generalized keyboard since first
> > we need to catch up with it.
> >
> > I could care less about velocity sensitivity as my concern is with pitch
> > over volume which is easily adjustable. the velocity thing is driving
> > the price up.
>
> That's right. Walk before run.

Hey Carl!

Right now I'd be happy just to start _crawling_! :-)
But I had expected & hoped that there might be a better
microtonal keyboard available after all these years.

Regards,
Yahya

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: 25/8/05

🔗harold_fortuin <harold@...>

The velocity-insensitive keyboard of the instrument I developed a decade ago (The
Clavette) can probably still be custom ordered from Bert Bongers, the brilliant Dutch
engineer who built the first 2. The latter Clavette has 124 keys, laid out very similar to the
Microzone of Harvey Starr, and I think a photo of it is still up in the Photos folder here at
MMM. That part of the instrument might run ca. $800.

However, you would still need a programmable voltage-MIDI conversion box to make it
work--I used the STEIM SensorLab, but probably some other such things could do it too--
or "roll your own" if you have the electronics know-how.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Yahya Abdal-Aziz" <yahya@m...> wrote:
>
> Kraig Grady wrote:
> > I don't think we need to go beyond the generalized keyboard since first
> > we need to catch up with it.
> >
> > I could care less about velocity sensitivity as my concern is with pitch
> > over volume which is easily adjustable. the velocity thing is driving
> > the price up. i just as soon forget it for now as waiting for a keyboard
> > when i am 65 i don't look forward too. I am interested in making music
> > right now and that is what i am going to do
> > .
> > All my microtonal keyboard work has been done with estey organs.
> > no velocity sensitivity there at all, but with the sustain you can do
> > two parts with one hand and actually hear it as such which doesn't ever
> > really work with the piano
> >
> >
> > Yahya Abdal-Aziz wrote:
> > >Kraig Grady wrote:
> > >...
> > >>it says allot for those who refused to be limited by the crumbs the
> > >>companies throw at them. it takes allot of persistence to do say what
> > >>Kyle Gann does with a 12 tone keyboard.
> > >>i could not do easily what i did with a few instruments 30 years ago
> > >>which means if i waited, none of these pieces would exist, or worse i
> > >>would have to concede to thinking like an auto mechanic to do it.
> > >>Could someone write poetry , if they had to go through what we need to
> > >>to make a pencil?
> > >> the answer is no, and sums up the present predicament.
> > >
> > >Carl Lumma wrote:
> > > >Agree 100%.
> > >
> > >Hi guys,
> > >What really surprises me is that we have so little to show in the way
> > >of a practical microtonalist's keyboard. Have we actually made any
> > >progress at all since Bosanquet? 8-0
> > > >
> >In the 60s I played around with some cheap surplus "piano-key
> > >switches". They were designed for operating reel-to-reel tape
> > >recorders. I was hoping to make something that would let me realise
> > >a tuning which was a theoretical favourite of mine at the time.
> > >Creating the tone oscillators was simple enough, but I wanted
> > >something I could play in real time with no worse "touch" than
> > >our old pedal harmonium. Sadly, I had to trade off reliability against
> > >sensitivity, and I never did get anything useful out of it.
> > >
> > >Have any of you had hands-on experience with a microtonal keyboard
> > >- preferably with good touch attributes? (velocity sensitivity and
> > >aftertouch).
>
> Kraig,
>
> I looked up the Estey company website, only to find that it's for
> a museum! Seems they haven't been manufacturing anything for
> quite a while now. But back when they did, they made organs, pianos
> and many other instruments. I've never (knowingly) seen an Estey
> instrument in Australia.
>
> You wrote: "I am interested in making music right now and that
> is what i am going to do." I couldn't agree more! So I probably
> won't be using an Estey.
>
> When you wrote: "All my microtonal keyboard work has been done
> with estey organs", were you talking of their pipe organs? 8-0 Most
> importantly, I guess, how did you retune the organ?
>
> One more question - what do you mean by "the generalized keyboard"?
>
> Regards,
> Yahya
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/82 - Release Date: 25/8/05

🔗threesixesinarow <CACCOLA@...>

> I looked up the Estey company website, only to find that it's for
> a museum! Seems they haven't been manufacturing anything for
> quite a while now. But back when they did, they made organs, pianos
> and many other instruments.

Kraig, is any of yours with a Liszt organ sostenuto mechanism? Levi
Fuller from Estey had a big collection of tuning forks he displayed at
the 1893 Worlds Fair, I don't know what connection there was with
Ellis' history of pitch reference. Heres a list of the reed organs and
harmoniums that I found referenced (but not accordions; microtonal
violinist Katt Hernandez who I met visiting here yesterday described a
concertina tuned with 1/3-tones) : Henry Poole, James Bazin, A.
Storck, Colin Brown, Shohe Tanaka, J. Mueller, L. Orser, T.A. Jennings
(Bosanquet), A.R. McClure, T. Perronet Thompson, Marchand, H. Keatley
Moore, Robert Snell. Lindholm scalaphone, Friedrich Reul
(Moellendorff), Mager, Georg Apunn (Blaserno), Joachim Steiner,
Jeronimas Kacinskas, Alois Haba, Harry Partch, Stockholm Museum, Eitz
Harmonium, Alexander Ellis, Max Meyer, Ferrucio Busoni, Wilfrid
Perrett, Jas. Paul White, Kraig Grady and Newband.

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

Sorry for the delay on this.
The estey organs i have got were used, hence possible to afford.
these are all small 4 octave reed organs that conveniently fold up into a case that one can move to a gig .
not that they are that light but doable.
By generalized i mean any bosanquet like design that can handle any scale one wishes to put on it having the property of uniformed fingering. obviously limited by a certain number of keys

Yahya Abdal-Aziz wrote:

>
>
>Kraig,
>
>I looked up the Estey company website, only to find that it's for
>a museum! Seems they haven't been manufacturing anything for >quite a while now. But back when they did, they made organs, pianos
>and many other instruments. I've never (knowingly) seen an Estey >instrument in Australia.
>
>You wrote: "I am interested in making music right now and that >is what i am going to do." I couldn't agree more! So I probably
>won't be using an Estey.
>
>When you wrote: "All my microtonal keyboard work has been done >with estey organs", were you talking of their pipe organs? 8-0 Most
>importantly, I guess, how did you retune the organ?
>
>One more question - what do you mean by "the generalized keyboard"?
>
>Regards,
>Yahya
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@...>

"harold_fortuin" wrote:
> The velocity-insensitive keyboard of the instrument I developed a decade
ago (The
> Clavette) can probably still be custom ordered from Bert Bongers, the
brilliant Dutch
> engineer who built the first 2. The latter Clavette has 124 keys, laid out
very similar to the
> Microzone of Harvey Starr, and I think a photo of it is still up in the
Photos folder here at
> MMM. That part of the instrument might run ca. $800.
>
> However, you would still need a programmable voltage-MIDI conversion box
to make it
> work--I used the STEIM SensorLab, but probably some other such things
could do it too--
> or "roll your own" if you have the electronics know-how.
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Yahya Abdal-Aziz" <yahya@m...>
wrote:
[much clipped]

Harold,

Thank you for the information. Yes, there is a photo there.
The hexagonal arrangement of the keys, or pads, reminds
me a little of a button accordion.

It looks like the more economic route for me is going to be
one of the General MIDI, Roland GS or Yamaha XG keyboards
that allows full microtuning from Scala. The Roland keyboard
I have doesn't do that, but it is already about 8 years old and
technology changes quickly, so I should be able to get one for
well under AUD$500 now, say around USD$350.

The other main advantage of going this route is of course a
familiar keyboard layout and fingering. I want to try out
different tunings, with a reasonably fast speed of execution.
On a keyboard layout I know, my fingers have at least _half_
a chance of keeping up with my brain's invention!

Regards,
Yahya

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/84 - Release Date: 29/8/05

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

these unfortunately are single manual with normally a set of reeds that double at the octave.
i have in most cases changed these to unison in order to have the power to cut through my other instruments.
even this i am not completely happy with, but the octave thing just wasn't working for me. I keep mean to play with covering the reeds a bit since i have strip them down to have them exposed as much as possible.
some type of trough resonation would be nice.
i have played around a bit with sheets of hard plastic that i have bent in order to let the sound escape bouncing off of a curve instead of just hitting the back wall.
but nothing definite.
also i have tried playing with holding resonators of instruments tuned the same way . without a full set lined up, it is hard to tell if would be worth it since it appears to be a subtle effect.
In Madagascar there are all types of accordions that are retuned (seem to be) and are used in trance music.
great list here though.
i guess Fokker never really had a reed organ. having either pipe or his electronic one
threesixesinarow wrote:

>>I looked up the Estey company website, only to find that it's for
>>a museum! Seems they haven't been manufacturing anything for >>quite a while now. But back when they did, they made organs, pianos
>>and many other instruments.
>> >>
>
>Kraig, is any of yours with a Liszt organ sostenuto mechanism? Levi >Fuller from Estey had a big collection of tuning forks he displayed at >the 1893 Worlds Fair, I don't know what connection there was with >Ellis' history of pitch reference. Heres a list of the reed organs and >harmoniums that I found referenced (but not accordions; microtonal >violinist Katt Hernandez who I met visiting here yesterday described a >concertina tuned with 1/3-tones) : Henry Poole, James Bazin, A. >Storck, Colin Brown, Shohe Tanaka, J. Mueller, L. Orser, T.A. Jennings >(Bosanquet), A.R. McClure, T. Perronet Thompson, Marchand, H. Keatley >Moore, Robert Snell. Lindholm scalaphone, Friedrich Reul >(Moellendorff), Mager, Georg Apunn (Blaserno), Joachim Steiner, >Jeronimas Kacinskas, Alois Haba, Harry Partch, Stockholm Museum, Eitz >Harmonium, Alexander Ellis, Max Meyer, Ferrucio Busoni, Wilfrid >Perrett, Jas. Paul White, Kraig Grady and Newband.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

I think Harold design is well done and i have found that it took me no time at all to play on a bosanquet. like minutes
on a regular keyboard with a different tuning i find i have to think even more and having both 22 and at one time a 31 tone scale laid out in this fashion was just almost impossible to really to do much

>wrote:
>[much clipped]
>
>
>Harold,
>
>Thank you for the information. Yes, there is a photo there.
>The hexagonal arrangement of the keys, or pads, reminds
>me a little of a button accordion.
>
>It looks like the more economic route for me is going to be
>one of the General MIDI, Roland GS or Yamaha XG keyboards
>that allows full microtuning from Scala. The Roland keyboard
>I have doesn't do that, but it is already about 8 years old and
>technology changes quickly, so I should be able to get one for
>well under AUD$500 now, say around USD$350.
>
>The other main advantage of going this route is of course a
>familiar keyboard layout and fingering. I want to try out
>different tunings, with a reasonably fast speed of execution.
>On a keyboard layout I know, my fingers have at least _half_
>a chance of keeping up with my brain's invention!
>
>Regards,
>Yahya
>
>--
>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/84 - Release Date: 29/8/05
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗Paul Erlich <paul@...>

🔗threesixesinarow <CACCOLA@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...>
wrote:
> these unfortunately are single manual with normally a set of reeds
that
> double at the octave.
> i have in most cases changed these to unison in order to have the
power
> to cut through my other instruments.
> even this i am not completely happy with, but the octave thing just
> wasn't working for me.

Kraig, that octave thing, you will see on double manuals some holes
drilled through lower keys for pitmans for the top manual to play the
back row, making room for 24 notes per reed board and why that T. A.
Jennings advertised multiples of 12 in Bosanquet's book - he could use
normal reedpans and reeds. There's pictures of it in Robert Allan's '
The Free-Reed Organ in England' at http://tardis.dl.ac.uk/FreeReed/
English/organ_book/node14.html
Clark

🔗harold_fortuin <harold@...>

Thanks for the compliment, Kraig.

Of course, the Harvey Starr Microzone keyboards and the Clavette have the same essential
design - a plane of hexagons, although Erv Wilson came up with this idea before I did.

Although I'm obviously biased in favor of generalized keyboards (since I developed the
Clavette and now own a Microzone), the primary reason why is of course

because the pitch - key mapping works so beautifully for nearly any tuning system, and
can of course be set up with modern technology however you like,

including generalized mappings which of course give you the same key - interval relation
- so say your major chord always looks the same on the keyboard, unlike on a typical 12-
tone keyboard.

And for someone with some proficiency on the typical musical keyboard, it does not take
all that long to develop some technique on these generalized keyboards.

One way I proved this to my satisfaction back in '98 was when I played Scott Hackleman's
19-tone clavichord, which has a generalized hexagonal layout. Since I'd memorized the
Bach Well-Tempered Clavier Prelude #1 in C (arpeggiated chords on the "Ave Maria"
changes) on the standard keyboard, I tried it on Hackleman's instrument. To my own
surprise, I played it through with remarkably few mistakes on my first try.

But for anyone with free bass accordion technique, perhaps it's worth investigating the
new Roland synthetic accordion, or perhaps retuning an existing instrument, since the
rows of back buttons on this instrument are offset in a way conducive to a generalized
keyboard treatment.

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
> I think Harold design is well done and i have found that it took me no
> time at all to play on a bosanquet. like minutes
> on a regular keyboard with a different tuning i find i have to think
> even more and having both 22 and at one time a 31 tone scale laid out in
> this fashion was just almost impossible to really to do much
>
> >wrote:
> >[much clipped]
> >
> >
> >Harold,
> >
> >Thank you for the information. Yes, there is a photo there.
> >The hexagonal arrangement of the keys, or pads, reminds
> >me a little of a button accordion.
> >
> >It looks like the more economic route for me is going to be
> >one of the General MIDI, Roland GS or Yamaha XG keyboards
> >that allows full microtuning from Scala. The Roland keyboard
> >I have doesn't do that, but it is already about 8 years old and
> >technology changes quickly, so I should be able to get one for
> >well under AUD$500 now, say around USD$350.
> >
> >The other main advantage of going this route is of course a
> >familiar keyboard layout and fingering. I want to try out
> >different tunings, with a reasonably fast speed of execution.
> >On a keyboard layout I know, my fingers have at least _half_
> >a chance of keeping up with my brain's invention!
> >
> >Regards,
> >Yahya
> >