Cinema Volta: Daily Ambience reaches the half-way mark

Cinema Volta: Daily Ambience
Fresh Ambient Music Composed Daily
a new tune every day, free of charge
at: http://www.cinemavolta.com/daily

It's hard to believe, but Daily Ambience has hit the halfway point -
182 tunes. Thanks to the site, I've managed to meet some interesting
new people and re-connect with some old friends. It's led to a couple
of film/video collaborations so far, one with Kora Mancini in the US
and another with Pedro Harres in Brazil.

Here's looking forward to the next 183 tunes!

-John

--------------------------------
John Maxwell Hobbs

jmax@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John,

{you wrote...}
>It's hard to believe, but Daily Ambience has hit the halfway point ...

"Hard to believe" is an understatement! John, just want to thank you in public for a fascinating journey. No, not every day's work makes it for me (though I have a whole folder of favorites), but I always check the podcast bin and see what you've been up to. So inspirational to know that someone has given making music a priority in their daily life!

Cheers,
Jon

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jon Szanto <jszanto@c...> wrote:

> So inspirational to know that someone
> has given making music a priority in their daily life!

Many of you may not believe this, but I've done this too. And I mean
daily. And I mean priority. If you're out in Harvard Square from 6 to
11 tonight, I'm the guy playing acoustic guitar like a sitar with the
guy playing doumbek like a tabla. Only a small percentage of this stuff
is microtonal, unless you use Johnny Reinhard's definition of
microtonal. But stop by and say hello if you find me -- I'd love to
meet any of you in person.

Paul,

{you wrote...}
>Many of you may not believe this, but I've done this too. And I mean >daily. And I mean priority.

Sorry, didn't mean to give the impression that no one else was! I know how hard it is to compose stuff, having just pulled two all-nighters trying to complete an 8-10 minute dance piece. John's work is an inspiration to me in that he has managed to create a system/setup with all the tools in place, and he can proceed to the lovely task of creating a new piece everyday without the hassles of figuring out software, balancing audio stuff, etc. I am about 95% of the way there myself, and it really is a wonderful thing to sit down and know that, in the main, the only impediment is a lack of muse. It has been uplifting to chart his course over a 1/2 year, and watch a fellow seeker.

It is a shame that your 'work' is so little documented, but that is only a shame in the sense that 'we' out here don't know of it. All the people around you, your active listeners, are (I am sure) having a good time.

Dang it, Paul, the cheapest mini-disc recorders and a quick-and-dirty mp3 encoding would delight a lot of people around here! Please consider sharing some sounds, even if they are in the lingua franca tuning.

If I post any of the dance piece it will have to be elsewhere, as the current version has not been non-12'd. This is planned, as there are sections that can easily adapt to better tunings; this project (at least this first performance) was under such a time crush that I had to get things done very fast, and couldn't mull through my tuning options. But Joe P. will be happy to know that I am stressing Sonar greatly, running about 25 instances of softsynths and samplers of various kinds, and a good number of audio plugins as well. So far, no crashes, and a virtual recording/mixing room right here in the house. This is all going to morph into pieces for recorded and/or live electronics and live instrumental performance.

All part of the Grand Plan, grinding inexorably towards the horizon...

Play well, Paul, we'll be there in spirit!

Cheers,
Jon

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jon Szanto <jszanto@c...> wrote:

> Dang it, Paul, the cheapest mini-disc recorders and a quick-and-dirty mp3
> encoding would delight a lot of people around here! Please consider sharing
> some sounds, even if they are in the lingua franca tuning.

I shared something from this duo a while back, and we've made an appointment to go into
the recording studio August 28th and/or September 7th (my other band may take one of
these dates).

My minidisc recorder died a few years ago. Any recommendations for a new one?

Looking forward to hearing your stuff, Jon, the snippets I've heard so far have all been
interesting.

-P

>My minidisc recorder died a few years ago. Any recommendations for
>a new one?

Hiya Paul,

Minidisc is history -- I don't recommend them. Try either the
Edirol R-1 or the M-Audio MicroTrack.

You can read my comparison of these devices here (with links
to the manufacturer's pages)...

http://www.lumma.org/microwave/#2005.07.25

Cheers!

-Carl

Gentlemen,

{you wrote...}
>Minidisc is history -- I don't recommend them.

It is only history if it doesn't have any value to the user, and that may not be someone chasing the edge of advancing technology.

>Try either the Edirol R-1 or the M-Audio MicroTrack.

Which one of these can be bought for less than $100? Oh, I see.

I agree with you in principle that we need to move past the days of hard media, etc. But I just subbed on a show for a guy who is a long-time drummer on Broadway, and I mentioned I'd probably record the show on md so I could study before subbing. He said great, because he records all his shows that way and stored the mini-discs right along with a copy of the book, all for easy reference. In this case, the format was not only not history, it was the perfect match.

To answer Paul's question, I haven't invested in any new md recorders in a while. I simply bought a second Sharp 702 on eBay (as a backup unit) for about $60. All one needs to document transitory music experiences (like Paul, who plays with lots of different people in various situations) is a simple unit with decent fidelity, decent battery life, and low cost.

But I really *do* like that M-Audio unit. Probably will look at something in that are in the next year or two, we'll see how the technology/market shakes out.

One last thing: internal mics? You've just signalled that you don't care about the quality of the recording, and might as well take a cassette recorder! I don't quite see the point of good specs, quality a/d and d/a conversion if you just end up using a mic built into the body of the unit. But I guess is all depends on what you need it for.

Good comparison on your site, Carl. Let me know if you find out if the M-Audio battery is easily replaceable...

Cheers,
Jon

>>Try either the Edirol R-1 or the M-Audio MicroTrack.
>
>Which one of these can be bought for less than $100? Oh, I see.

Can you get an MD recorder with digital out for line-in recordings
for less than $100? No.

Plus: MDs have moving parts and tend to break.

>One last thing: internal mics? You've just signalled that you don't
>care about the quality of the recording, and might as well take a
>cassette recorder!

Nope -- internal mics can be near optimal for live acoustic music.
In fact, the cheap pinhole electret condensers in many old cassette
recorders can outperform mics costing hundreds of dollars for what I
want to do. And of course, cassette has lots of problems (poor
S/N ratio, pre-echo, wow and flutter, and poor media halflife) that
24-bit solid-state digital doesn't.

>I don't quite see the point of good specs, quality a/d and d/a
>conversion if you just end up using a mic built into the body of
>the unit.

I don't get the point of external mics and a handheld-size recorder.
As long as I'm carying a pair of mics and stands (and expensive and
unweildy TRS->XLR converters), I might as well carry my laptop and
audio interface (where the phantom power will far surpass that of
the MicroTrack).

This is all based on recording acoustic music... still, a band with
a board might as well tote a laptop, and save $500 (since you already
own the laptop). What, no laptop? Get with it, man.

-Carl

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jon Szanto <jszanto@c...> wrote:
> Gentlemen,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >Minidisc is history -- I don't recommend them.
>

***J. Szanto turned me on to the Sharp minidiscs and I've been
recording live music effectively with them ever since...

I think I'd rather drop that at a gig than a laptop... :)

If there is some new *solid state* *small* unit out there... now that
might be more of interest...

J. Pehrson

JP,

{you wrote...}
>I think I'd rather drop that at a gig than a laptop... :)

Let's not talk about the _other_ minidisc that I lost by dropping it in the bay doing environmental recordings. Glad *that* wasn't a laptop!

>If there is some new *solid state* *small* unit out there... now that >might be more of interest...

Uh, JP, that is exactly what Carl's links were pointing to.

Cheers,
Jon

C,

{you wrote...}
>Can you get an MD recorder with digital out for line-in recordings for >less than $100? No.

He doesn't need a digital out. He just needs to make some decent, documentary recordings.

>Plus: MDs have moving parts and tend to break.

Mine haven't broken. Not saying they don't, but I've had ZERO problems.

>I don't get the point of external mics and a handheld-size recorder.

I use Core Sound binaurals. Extremely tiny, an incredible sound field, their own pre-amp that is about the size of a pack of gum. Works for me.

>What, no laptop? Get with it, man.

Well, yeah. The only thing I hate is, like all the other computer stuff, it gets old real fast. I keep expecting manufacturers to put expiration dates on their lappies...

Cheers,
Jon

>If there is some new *solid state* *small* unit out there... now that
>might be more of interest...
>
>J. Pehrson

Really JP, what do you think my post was about?

-Carl

Jon Szanto wrote:

>JP,
>
>{you wrote...}
> >
>>I think I'd rather drop that at a gig than a laptop... :)
>> >>
>
>Let's not talk about the _other_ minidisc that I lost by dropping it in the >bay doing environmental recordings. Glad *that* wasn't a laptop!
>
Around '94-'95 a friend invited me to spend some time at her time share
condo in Capastrano Beach. I took along an old boom box that I'd
had for years. First chance I had, I took it down to the beach to pick up
some enviromental sounds. As soon as I set it down and took a seat on my blanket
a real nice wave landed on the box. Me so stupid. Just a little too close to the water.

Of course the box didn't work, I tossed it the garbage, but when I got home it
was interesting to listen to the tape. Ocean, birds, people having fun in the distance,
sound of wave and then zap. I wonder where that tape is now...

Lost a pair of prescription glasses in a lake in NJ once too. That might have been
the last time I was out in a boat too.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

>>Can you get an MD recorder with digital out for line-in recordings for
>>less than $100? No.
>
>He doesn't need a digital out. He just needs to make some decent,
>documentary recordings.

How's he going to get the sound out?

>>Plus: MDs have moving parts and tend to break.
>
>Mine haven't broken. Not saying they don't, but I've had ZERO problems.

Paul's did. I had two break on me.

>>I don't get the point of external mics and a handheld-size recorder.
>
>I use Core Sound binaurals. Extremely tiny, an incredible sound field,
>their own pre-amp that is about the size of a pack of gum. Works for me.

I know you do. Good mics.

>>What, no laptop? Get with it, man.
>
>Well, yeah. The only thing I hate is, like all the other computer stuff,
>it gets old real fast.

I had my first thinkpad for over 4 years (I keep it as a backup still)
and this one's already over a year old and hasn't depreciated much at
all.

In fact laptop tech moves much more slowly than desktop tech.

-Carl

db,

I realize we're veering OT, but it's been slow...

{you wrote...}
>... a real nice wave landed on the box. Me so stupid. Just a little too
>close to the water. [snip] ... but when I got home it was interesting to >listen to the tape. Ocean, birds, people having fun in the distance, sound >of wave and then zap.

Love it. My parallel story was standing on the rocky shoreline in Northern Oregon, taking stereo photographs of the incredible blow holes with my 50's-era Stereo Realist camera. Had a great series of shots, and then I heard my wife scream "Look out!". Next think I knew I could only see white in the viewfinder, followed by a complete soaking - I'm actually a little lucky that I didn't get swept off the rocks!

Alas, by the time I could get to where the camera could be disassembled it was pretty much shot, but I had managed to save the film. Sure enough, I cut and meticulously mounted the last image(s). With a proper stereo viewer, or better yet, with a good stereo projector and the polorized glasses, you get the intense feeling/sight of standing right in the middle of a breaking wave spray.

The sacrifices we make for art.

Cheers,
Jon

C,

{you wrote...}
>How's he going to get the sound out?

Just like I do: line out.

>Paul's did. I had two break on me.

Ah well, such is life. In principle I agree with you, but for quick-and-dirty I think this is the way to go, and I've had good usage.

>I had my first thinkpad for over 4 years

I remember that laptop!

>In fact laptop tech moves much more slowly than desktop tech.

Hmmm. It had seemed to me that screens, hd size, wireless, all that was moving along a lot faster. My VAIO is about 4 years old, but lacks internal wireless, is heavier by a good bit than the newer ones, etc. On the other hand, it still works, just not spunky enough for live music use. Low on my priority list.

Damn, I'm wasting bandwidth - those are my last OT thoughts for tonight!

Cheers,
Jon

mine is a week after i was married( the first time) , i was out swimming in the ocean and as the wave moved out, it caught the ring on my finger and pulled it right off.
my daughter dropped her cell phone in water, let it dry out for three days and it works again!

Jon Szanto wrote:

>db,
>
>I realize we're veering OT, but it's been slow...
>
>{you wrote...}
> >
>>... a real nice wave landed on the box. Me so stupid. Just a little too
>>close to the water. [snip] ... but when I got home it was interesting to >>listen to the tape. Ocean, birds, people having fun in the distance, sound >>of wave and then zap.
>> >>
>
>Love it. My parallel story was standing on the rocky shoreline in Northern >Oregon, taking stereo photographs of the incredible blow holes with my >50's-era Stereo Realist camera. Had a great series of shots, and then I >heard my wife scream "Look out!". Next think I knew I could only see white >in the viewfinder, followed by a complete soaking - I'm actually a little >lucky that I didn't get swept off the rocks!
>
>Alas, by the time I could get to where the camera could be disassembled it >was pretty much shot, but I had managed to save the film. Sure enough, I >cut and meticulously mounted the last image(s). With a proper stereo >viewer, or better yet, with a good stereo projector and the polorized >glasses, you get the intense feeling/sight of standing right in the middle >of a breaking wave spray.
>
>The sacrifices we make for art.
>
>Cheers,
>Jon >
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

Jon Szanto wrote:

>db,
>
>I realize we're veering OT, but it's been slow...
> >
Yeah, but I thought it was a good story about sound.

>{you wrote...}
> >
>>... a real nice wave landed on the box. Me so stupid. Just a little too
>>close to the water. [snip] ... but when I got home it was interesting to >>listen to the tape. Ocean, birds, people having fun in the distance, sound >>of wave and then zap.
>> >>
>
>Love it. My parallel story was standing on the rocky shoreline in Northern >Oregon, taking stereo photographs of the incredible blow holes with my >50's-era Stereo Realist camera. Had a great series of shots, and then I >heard my wife scream "Look out!". Next think I knew I could only see white >in the viewfinder, followed by a complete soaking - I'm actually a little >lucky that I didn't get swept off the rocks!
>
>Alas, by the time I could get to where the camera could be disassembled it >was pretty much shot, but I had managed to save the film. Sure enough, I >cut and meticulously mounted the last image(s). With a proper stereo >viewer, or better yet, with a good stereo projector and the polorized >glasses, you get the intense feeling/sight of standing right in the middle >of a breaking wave spray.
>
>The sacrifices we make for art.
>
Another great story! Someday I'd like to start a blog for stories like this, but also
the bizarre gig story, I have a few. And I'm sure other people do too.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

Kraig Grady wrote:

>mine is a week after i was married( the first time) , i was out swimming >in the ocean and as the wave moved out, it caught the ring on my finger >and pulled it right off.
> my daughter dropped her cell phone in water, let it dry out for three >days and it works again!
>

Maybe I should have let the box dry out, but WTF, I don't think the heads would have
worked with a coating of salt water.

3:30 am, one of those sleepless nights...

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

one of the great things about mini disc are the scramble features that can be done without any perceivable time gaps.
I have seen them used very successfully in compositions where someone will be recording while a live piece is being performed and the next section will start with such a permutation in the next sections.
Or say 3 can be used each over a different parts that at the end, we hear together which i also saw done and it really turned out well.

Jon Szanto wrote:

>C,
>
>{you wrote...}
> >
>>How's he going to get the sound out?
>> >>
>
>Just like I do: line out.
>
> >
>>Paul's did. I had two break on me.
>> >>
>
>Ah well, such is life. In principle I agree with you, but for >quick-and-dirty I think this is the way to go, and I've had good usage.
>
> >
>>I had my first thinkpad for over 4 years
>> >>
>
>I remember that laptop!
>
> >
>>In fact laptop tech moves much more slowly than desktop tech.
>> >>
>
>Hmmm. It had seemed to me that screens, hd size, wireless, all that was >moving along a lot faster. My VAIO is about 4 years old, but lacks internal >wireless, is heavier by a good bit than the newer ones, etc. On the other >hand, it still works, just not spunky enough for live music use. Low on my >priority list.
>
>Damn, I'm wasting bandwidth - those are my last OT thoughts for tonight!
>
>Cheers,
>Jon >
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

i know a film maker that back wound his film with the end facing out and threw it into a pond.
Aa year later he took it out and he showed it and the closer you got to the end, the more algae you could see or would overtake the picture,
might work if you had reel to reel tape for that really bad free improv that is laying around

only almost 1 here, but enjoying the quiet.
At one point i had a cop car drive up my driveway flashing lights the whole bit to almost get caught in the driveway.
Funny i couldn't see a thing, but told the person here it sounded like a cop car was in my driveway, sure enough and he hardly made a sound when he drove up.
hope they caught their man, cause afterwards all hell broke loose with siren everywhere and helicopters.

My daughter knew the word helicopter before she knew the word plane. that is city living

David Beardsley wrote:

>Kraig Grady wrote:
>
> >
>>mine is a week after i was married( the first time) , i was out swimming >>in the ocean and as the wave moved out, it caught the ring on my finger >>and pulled it right off.
>>my daughter dropped her cell phone in water, let it dry out for three >>days and it works again!
>>
>> >>
>
>
>Maybe I should have let the box dry out, but WTF, I don't think the >heads would have
>worked with a coating of salt water.
>
>3:30 am, one of those sleepless nights...
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

I use Pro Audio Recorder Pro on my Treo (Palm OS device) to record
lessons and rehearsals. I have it record WAV files to an SD card,
then transfer the file via SD card reader into my computer. It's fine
for my needs.

iRiver (http://www.iriveramerica.com/) is apparently growing in
popularity with bootleggers and musicians who just need a quick and
cheap recording solution. A 1GB "ultra-portable" (I've seen one -
they're only slightly larger than a cigarette lighter) is about $150
or so at newegg.com. The ultra-portables have built-in mics but can
also take external mics, and support a variety of audio formats (OGG,
WAV, etc.).

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jon Szanto <jszanto@c...> wrote:

> >Plus: MDs have moving parts and tend to break.
>
> Mine haven't broken. Not saying they don't, but I've had ZERO
problems.

Just about every member of Stretch had an MD recorder. They've all
bitten the dust. Sonys and Sharps. But I can afford a new one . . .
what the hey. Thanks for the interest, guys!

P,

{you wrote...}
>Just about every member of Stretch had an MD recorder. They've all bitten >the dust. Sonys and Sharps.

Total bummer, and the experience *you've* had is most important (maybe I just have good md karma). Maybe there is an interim solution until the solid-state units drop in price. If you *do* start looking at new ones, I was just bowled over with joy with my Sharp DR7 until it went into about 60 feet of Pacific Ocean... along with my md karma!

Sharp now makes the DR77, but new they are only about $130 less than the M-Audio unit Carl mentioned. You can compare them and see features at this place:

http://www.minidisco.com/portables.html

Cheers,
Jon

I want to know if you can shuffle w/o sound breaks on the compact flash ones?

Jon Szanto wrote:

>P,
>
>{you wrote...}
> >
>>Just about every member of Stretch had an MD recorder. They've all bitten >>the dust. Sonys and Sharps.
>> >>
>
>Total bummer, and the experience *you've* had is most important (maybe I >just have good md karma). Maybe there is an interim solution until the >solid-state units drop in price. If you *do* start looking at new ones, I >was just bowled over with joy with my Sharp DR7 until it went into about 60 >feet of Pacific Ocean... along with my md karma!
>
>Sharp now makes the DR77, but new they are only about $130 less than the >M-Audio unit Carl mentioned. You can compare them and see features at this >place:
>
>http://www.minidisco.com/portables.html
>
>Cheers,
>Jon
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

Don't know about the R-1... maybe. I don't use it for it playback.
But it's a cinch to do this on a computer with the "gapless" feature
on your favorite audio player.

-Carl

>I want to know if you can shuffle w/o sound breaks on the compact flash
>ones?
>
>Jon Szanto wrote:
>
>>P,
>>
>>{you wrote...}
>>
>>
>>>Just about every member of Stretch had an MD recorder. They've all
>>>bitten the dust. Sonys and Sharps.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Total bummer, and the experience *you've* had is most important (maybe I
>>just have good md karma). Maybe there is an interim solution until the
>>solid-state units drop in price. If you *do* start looking at new ones,
>>I was just bowled over with joy with my Sharp DR7 until it went into
>>about 60 feet of Pacific Ocean... along with my md karma!
>>
>>Sharp now makes the DR77, but new they are only about $130 less than the
>>M-Audio unit Carl mentioned. You can compare them and see features at
>>this place:
>>
>>http://www.minidisco.com/portables.html
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Jon

really? how does this work.

Carl Lumma wrote:

>Don't know about the R-1... maybe. I don't use it for it playback.
>But it's a cinch to do this on a computer with the "gapless" feature
>on your favorite audio player.
>
>-Carl
>
> >
>>I want to know if you can shuffle w/o sound breaks on the compact flash >>ones?
>>
>>Jon Szanto wrote:
>>
>> >>
>>>P,
>>>
>>>{you wrote...}
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>>>Just about every member of Stretch had an MD recorder. They've all
>>>>bitten the dust. Sonys and Sharps.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>Total bummer, and the experience *you've* had is most important (maybe I >>>just have good md karma). Maybe there is an interim solution until the >>>solid-state units drop in price. If you *do* start looking at new ones,
>>>I was just bowled over with joy with my Sharp DR7 until it went into
>>>about 60 feet of Pacific Ocean... along with my md karma!
>>>
>>>Sharp now makes the DR77, but new they are only about $130 less than the >>>M-Audio unit Carl mentioned. You can compare them and see features at
>>>this place:
>>>
>>>http://www.minidisco.com/portables.html
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>Jon
>>> >>>
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

>>>I want to know if you can shuffle w/o sound breaks on the compact
>>>flash ones?
>>>
>>
>>Don't know about the R-1... maybe. I don't use it for it playback.
>>But it's a cinch to do this on a computer with the "gapless" feature
>>on your favorite audio player.
>
>really? how does this work.

It looks like winamp still requires a plugin (google winamp gapless).
But... you use a Mac, right?

I did a search, and apparently iTunes doesn't support it. In fact,
the OS X audio player situation is really bleak. But try...

http://cogosx.sourceforge.net/

-Carl

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jon Szanto <jszanto@c...>
wrote:
> JP,
>
> {you wrote...}
> >I think I'd rather drop that at a gig than a laptop... :)
>
> Let's not talk about the _other_ minidisc that I lost by dropping
it in the
> bay doing environmental recordings. Glad *that* wasn't a laptop!
>
> >If there is some new *solid state* *small* unit out there... now
that
> >might be more of interest...
>
> Uh, JP, that is exactly what Carl's links were pointing to.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon

***Oh... I looked at the links now! :) Very interesting!

But, has anybody tried these units? How are they on the "on the fly"
recording level adjustments? What's your offhanded impression, Jon?

And, why was Carl talking, then, about lugging around a laptop...??

(I admit, I haven't been able to read every single message just
lately, but I did read all the fishing stories... :)

JP

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Jon Szanto <jszanto@c...> But
Joe
> P. will be happy to know that I am stressing Sonar greatly, running
about
> 25 instances of softsynths and samplers of various kinds, and a good
number
> of audio plugins as well. So far, no crashes, and a virtual
> recording/mixing room right here in the house. This is all going to
morph
> into pieces for recorded and/or live electronics and live
instrumental
> performance.
>

***I *am* impressed... Glad you have a fast machine, Jon! Will enjoy
listening when the brew is mixed...

JP

> One last thing: internal mics? You've just signalled that you don't
care
> about the quality of the recording, and might as well take a cassette
> recorder! I don't quite see the point of good specs, quality a/d and
d/a
> conversion if you just end up using a mic built into the body of the
unit.
> But I guess is all depends on what you need it for.
>
> Good comparison on your site, Carl. Let me know if you find out if
the
> M-Audio battery is easily replaceable...
>
> Cheers,
> Jon

***I understand now the bit about the laptop. Well, I wouldn't want to
use internal mics... I've had bad experiences with them before. Of
course, that was with machines with moving parts... but I can't believe
they would put a superb mic in the body of the thing...

JP

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> >If there is some new *solid state* *small* unit out there... now
that
> >might be more of interest...
> >
> >J. Pehrson
>
> Really JP, what do you think my post was about?
>
> -Carl

***Sorry, Carl. Reading more carefully on the second round...

JP

>***Oh... I looked at the links now! :) Very interesting!
>
>But, has anybody tried these units?

Yes, I own an R-1, and Kurt and Paul B. too.

>How are they on the "on the fly" recording level adjustments?

Considering that most Sony MDs (used to, at least) disallow
level adjustments after recording began, the R-1 is very flexible.
The meter on the R-1, and the level knob, need a bit of work,
as I explain on my blog, but they're much better than any of
the three Sony, and one Sharp MD recorders I've used. And I'm
99% certain that the MicroTrack's qualifications in this dept. are
better still.

-Carl

>***I understand now the bit about the laptop. Well, I wouldn't want to
>use internal mics... I've had bad experiences with them before. Of
>course, that was with machines with moving parts... but I can't believe
>they would put a superb mic in the body of the thing...

The mics on the R-1 are excellent. You couldn't tell the difference
between them and AKG-414s (the old, German-made ones, to boot) in
say, a chamber music performance in a normal auditorium.

-Carl

C,

{you wrote...}
>The mics on the R-1 are excellent. You couldn't tell the difference >between them and AKG-414s (the old, German-made ones, to boot) in say, a >chamber music performance in a normal auditorium.

Now that, my dear friend, is a claim that just cries out for the very comparison you point out! But if it is simply _close_ to that quality, then they must do pretty well.

Cheers,
Jon

>C,
>
>{you wrote...}
>>The mics on the R-1 are excellent. You couldn't tell the difference
>>between them and AKG-414s (the old, German-made ones, to boot) in say,
>>a chamber music performance in a normal auditorium.
>
>Now that, my dear friend, is a claim that just cries out for the very
>comparison you point out! But if it is simply _close_ to that quality,
>then they must do pretty well.
>
>Cheers,
>Jon

The thing is, most of the mic stuff is snake oil. Large-capsule
condensers like the 414 are known for their pleasant distortion. They
may make a mediocre vocalist sound warmer (largely just the bass boost
side effect of the cardioid pattern) or more "present" (largely just
a bit of mid-high freq boost with >12K rolled off) but neither of
these things are relevant in an instrumental rehearsal or street
performance situation. The biggest thing external mics will get you
is more choices for mic placement, background noise suppression, etc.
For micing my piano, the R-1 is near optimal. For recording a classical
concert in a church, unless you can afford Earthworks or Schoeps
spaced omnis, the R-1's microphones will satisfy. The far bigger
problem with the R-1 as far as producing release-ready recordings is
getting the levels right.

-Carl

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> >***Oh... I looked at the links now! :) Very interesting!
> >
> >But, has anybody tried these units?
>
> Yes, I own an R-1, and Kurt and Paul B. too.
>
> >How are they on the "on the fly" recording level adjustments?
>
> Considering that most Sony MDs (used to, at least) disallow
> level adjustments after recording began, the R-1 is very flexible.
> The meter on the R-1, and the level knob, need a bit of work,
> as I explain on my blog, but they're much better than any of
> the three Sony, and one Sharp MD recorders I've used. And I'm
> 99% certain that the MicroTrack's qualifications in this dept. are
> better still.
>
> -Carl

OK, guys, I'm ready to plunk down some $ on a new portable recording
device (and mic, if necessary). It can be MD or it can be something
that I firewire into my computer after the fact. No, I won't be
bringing a laptop. I discovered a most amazing acoustic space
yesterday and plan to record there -- the old powder magazine on
George's Island:

http://tinyurl.com/8v5ge

So, what should I purchase?

>> >***Oh... I looked at the links now! :) Very interesting!
>> >
>> >But, has anybody tried these units?
>>
>> Yes, I own an R-1, and Kurt and Paul B. too.
>>
>> >How are they on the "on the fly" recording level adjustments?
>>
>> Considering that most Sony MDs (used to, at least) disallow
>> level adjustments after recording began, the R-1 is very flexible.
>> The meter on the R-1, and the level knob, need a bit of work,
>> as I explain on my blog, but they're much better than any of
>> the three Sony, and one Sharp MD recorders I've used. And I'm
>> 99% certain that the MicroTrack's qualifications in this dept. are
>> better still.
>>
>> -Carl
>
>OK, guys, I'm ready to plunk down some $ on a new portable recording
>device (and mic, if necessary). It can be MD or it can be something
>that I firewire into my computer after the fact. No, I won't be
>bringing a laptop. I discovered a most amazing acoustic space
>yesterday and plan to record there -- the old powder magazine on
>George's Island:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/8v5ge
>
>So, what should I purchase?

Hiya Paul,

I'd go with the M-Audio MicroTrack (or if you want to go with the
R-1, contact me off-list for an unbeatable price :).

The MicroTrack apparently comes with an 1/8" microphone, but you
could maybe do better with something like...

http://www.minidisco.com/at-9841.html
http://www.minidisco.com/sp-spsm1.html
http://www.minidisco.com/dt-1eb.html
http://www.minidisco.com/sp-spsm1.html (not stealth)
http://www.core-sound.com/mics.html

Note that Core Sound sells the MicroTrack, so you could get
everything in one stop.

-Carl

I wrote...

>>So, what should I purchase?
>
>Hiya Paul,
>
>I'd go with the M-Audio MicroTrack (or if you want to go with the
>R-1, contact me off-list for an unbeatable price :).
>
>The MicroTrack apparently comes with an 1/8" microphone, but you
>could maybe do better with something like...
>
>http://www.minidisco.com/at-9841.html
>http://www.minidisco.com/sp-spsm1.html
>http://www.minidisco.com/dt-1eb.html
>http://www.minidisco.com/sp-spsm1.html (not stealth)
>http://www.core-sound.com/mics.html
>
>Note that Core Sound sells the MicroTrack, so you could get
>everything in one stop.

Oops, that penultimate link should have been...

http://www.core-sound.com/lcmics.html (not stealth)

-C.

i still say MD for the shuffle feature which is quite musical and you could use solo by yourself. imagine taking 5 of your 22 Et chords playing them, recording them, then shuffle them while you play over them. i have seem this done by scores of people and it is a great option to the 'delay' option.
Now that i said that which of the other models looks best

Paul Erlich wrote:

>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> >
>>>***Oh... I looked at the links now! :) Very interesting!
>>>
>>>But, has anybody tried these units?
>>> >>>
>>Yes, I own an R-1, and Kurt and Paul B. too.
>>
>> >>
>>>How are they on the "on the fly" recording level adjustments?
>>> >>>
>>Considering that most Sony MDs (used to, at least) disallow
>>level adjustments after recording began, the R-1 is very flexible.
>>The meter on the R-1, and the level knob, need a bit of work,
>>as I explain on my blog, but they're much better than any of
>>the three Sony, and one Sharp MD recorders I've used. And I'm
>>99% certain that the MicroTrack's qualifications in this dept. are
>>better still.
>>
>>-Carl
>> >>
>
>OK, guys, I'm ready to plunk down some $ on a new portable recording >device (and mic, if necessary). It can be MD or it can be something >that I firewire into my computer after the fact. No, I won't be >bringing a laptop. I discovered a most amazing acoustic space >yesterday and plan to record there -- the old powder magazine on >George's Island:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/8v5ge
>
>So, what should I purchase?
>
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

>i still say MD for the shuffle feature which is quite musical and you
>could use solo by yourself. imagine taking 5 of your 22 Et chords
>playing them, recording them, then shuffle them while you play over
>them.

That's great, but it's a playback feature not a recording feature.
There are lots of things that can do this, including audio player
software on a laptop, or famously, Apple's iPod Shuffle. Also,
the Boomerang pedal gives manual triggering over something like 5
different loops.

-Carl

often the people who use the MD have more than one and you can set up a whole texture with 3 of these. cheaper than laptops.
and while you mention these options, i have yet to see anyone use them live for some reason

Carl Lumma wrote:

>>i still say MD for the shuffle feature which is quite musical and you >>could use solo by yourself. imagine taking 5 of your 22 Et chords >>playing them, recording them, then shuffle them while you play over >>them.
>> >>
>
>That's great, but it's a playback feature not a recording feature.
>There are lots of things that can do this, including audio player
>software on a laptop, or famously, Apple's iPod Shuffle. Also,
>the Boomerang pedal gives manual triggering over something like 5
>different loops.
>
>-Carl
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

>often the people who use the MD have more than one and you can set up a
>whole texture with 3 of these. cheaper than laptops.

Except you can do it with one laptop and Ableton Live, and as many
'players' as you want.

>and while you mention these options, i have yet to see anyone use them
>live for some reason

Boomerangs are all over the place. Shuffles are comparatively
new, but DJ tools are already emerging to accept them.

-Carl