Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup makemicromusic Robert Smith Equal Harmony

could you give a more direct link to the instrument as it is not obvious to me

threesixesinarow wrote:

><a href="http://www.music.ed.ac.uk/russell/conference/
>robertsmithkirckman.html"><http://www.music.ed.ac.uk/russell/
>conference/robertsmithkirckman.html></a>
>O'Brien, Grant. Robert Smith's 'Equal Harmony' and the harpsichord >built for it by Jacob Kirckman. Russell Collection of Early Keyboard >Instruments St Cecilia's Hall, Niddry Street, Cowgate, Edinburgh EH1 >1LJ
>"In the second edition of his book Harmonics or the Philosophy of >Musical Sounds Robert Smith applies his 'Equal Harmony' temperament to >the harpsichord as well as to the organ. Indeed he claims that he >commissioned a certain Mr. Kirkman, doubtless the well-known London >maker Jacob Kirckman, to make a harpsichord according to his ingenious >design and, presumably, to tune it to his temperament."
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗Jon Szanto <jszanto@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@...>

threesixesinarow wrote:
> <a href="http://www.music.ed.ac.uk/russell/conference/
> robertsmithkirckman.html"><http://www.music.ed.ac.uk/russell/
> conference/robertsmithkirckman.html></a>
> O'Brien, Grant. Robert Smith's 'Equal Harmony' and the harpsichord
> built for it by Jacob Kirckman. Russell Collection of Early Keyboard
> Instruments St Cecilia's Hall, Niddry Street, Cowgate, Edinburgh EH1
> 1LJ
>
> "In the second edition of his book Harmonics or the Philosophy of
> Musical Sounds Robert Smith applies his 'Equal Harmony' temperament to
> the harpsichord as well as to the organ. Indeed he claims that he
> commissioned a certain Mr. Kirkman, doubtless the well-known London
> maker Jacob Kirckman, to make a harpsichord according to his ingenious
> design and, presumably, to tune it to his temperament."

Jon gave this clearer link:
> http://tinyurl.com/artwg

Thank you (both) for the link to this interesting article.
I have a question arising from it. But first, a quote:

In the article, Grant O'Brien wrote:
> In conclusion
>
> Musically, in those tonalities which are playable in Smith's 'Equal
Harmony' temperament and using his Second System , the tuning quality of a
major triad is almost identical with -comma meantone temperament, except
that normal -comma meantone has major thirds that are 4 cents wider instead
of 4 cents narrower than pure. Chromaticism is even more poignant in Smith's
temperament than in any of the normal seventeenth- and eighteenth-century
cyclical or regular temperaments which use major thirds which are either
pure or slightly wide. This poignancy is achieved because the narrow thirds
of Smith's temperament effectively result in the characteristic small
chromatic semitones. This effect becomes especially apparent and musically
effective in chromatic passages and in enharmonic modulations because of the
wide spacing of the enharmonically-related notes.
>
> Although Smith's 'Equal Harmony' temperament has gained little popularity
and is considered an obscure and little-known temperament, it is clearly not
without its musical advantages. Nonetheless it is true that the difference
between Smith's temperament and the easy-to-tune ï¿½-comma meantone
temperament is only marginal in its musical effectiveness or in its use on
an instrument equipped with the enharmonic lever arrangements suggested by
Smith. It is of course possible to use ï¿½-comma meantone temperament equally
well on either an organ or a harpsichord equipped for Smith's 'Equal
Harmony' without modification to the physical operating mechanism. Perhaps
the musical qualities and advantages of the temperament do not quite live up
to the mathematical elegance of Smith's ingenious tuning system and the
mechanical artifice and sophistication with which he puts it into practice,
whether on the organ or on the harpsichord.
>

I'm particularly interested in his comments on the "poignancy"
of the Smith "Equal Harmony" - 50-EDO - being due to its
"characteristic small chromatic semitones".

Here's my question, on which I seek your collective wisdom based
on actual experience of alternative tunings (rather than theory):
How far can one take this narrowing of the chromatic semitones,
while still retaining a fairly just flavour to the intonation?

Regards,
Yahya

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🔗Paul Erlich <paul@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Yahya Abdal-Aziz"

> Here's my question, on which I seek your collective wisdom based
> on actual experience of alternative tunings (rather than theory):
> How far can one take this narrowing of the chromatic semitones,
> while still retaining a fairly just flavour to the intonation?

Hi Yahya,

Perhaps Aaron Johnson is uniquely qualified to answer this question,
considering the extensive work he's just done in 2/5-comma meantone,
which could be one possible answer to your query.

"Fairly just" is a relative term to say the least. I don't consider any
meantone tuning, even the various 'optimal' ones such 1/4-comma,
Riccati's 3/14-comma, Woolhouse's 7/26-comma, Smith's 5/18-comma
(nearly enough), or Zarlino's 2/7-comma, to have that 'just-like'
quality you get when all the consonances are within 2 or 3 cents of
pure.

But if one can make a *huge* stretch and consider 12-equal to be
a 'fairly just' meantone in some 5-limit sense, then I do have an
answer based on quite a bit of actual experience: 26-equal. This is a
meantone tuning where the chromatic semitone is only 1/3 the size of
the diatonic semitone, and 1/4 the size of the major second. These are
very far from the proportions we're used to hearing, but the fact that
this is a meantone tuning means that you can coherently express
conventionally (Western) notated music in it, and the triads sound
decent. If someone wants to notate conventionally and hear something
radically different from 12-equal but doesn't want to deal with the
comma drifts, comma shifts, and other difficulties of a non-meantone
tuning, I'd recommend 26-equal.

If one is willing to go even further and actually *reverse the
direction* of the chromatic semitone (so that a sharp is a lowering of
pitch and a flat is a raising of pitch), then one lands in one of my
favorite musical territories: Mavila tunings. You can notate
conventionally, but minor triads and intervals will sound major and
major triads and intervals will sound minor! Mavila is really one of my
favorite tunings to sit down at the keyboard with and just play around -
- I really don't have to think! But Mavila tunings aren't even close to
being 'fairly just' and only sound good with a few of the inharmonic
timbres on my keyboard.

Best,
Paul

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

How far out are you taking Mavila? Since it has MOS at 9 and 16 ( not that that has stopped me)

Paul Erlich wrote:

>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Yahya Abdal-Aziz" >
> >
>>Here's my question, on which I seek your collective wisdom based
>>on actual experience of alternative tunings (rather than theory):
>>How far can one take this narrowing of the chromatic semitones,
>>while still retaining a fairly just flavour to the intonation?
>> >>
>
>Hi Yahya,
>
>Perhaps Aaron Johnson is uniquely qualified to answer this question, >considering the extensive work he's just done in 2/5-comma meantone, >which could be one possible answer to your query.
>
>"Fairly just" is a relative term to say the least. I don't consider any >meantone tuning, even the various 'optimal' ones such 1/4-comma, >Riccati's 3/14-comma, Woolhouse's 7/26-comma, Smith's 5/18-comma >(nearly enough), or Zarlino's 2/7-comma, to have that 'just-like' >quality you get when all the consonances are within 2 or 3 cents of >pure.
>
>But if one can make a *huge* stretch and consider 12-equal to be >a 'fairly just' meantone in some 5-limit sense, then I do have an >answer based on quite a bit of actual experience: 26-equal. This is a >meantone tuning where the chromatic semitone is only 1/3 the size of >the diatonic semitone, and 1/4 the size of the major second. These are >very far from the proportions we're used to hearing, but the fact that >this is a meantone tuning means that you can coherently express >conventionally (Western) notated music in it, and the triads sound >decent. If someone wants to notate conventionally and hear something >radically different from 12-equal but doesn't want to deal with the >comma drifts, comma shifts, and other difficulties of a non-meantone >tuning, I'd recommend 26-equal.
>
>If one is willing to go even further and actually *reverse the >direction* of the chromatic semitone (so that a sharp is a lowering of >pitch and a flat is a raising of pitch), then one lands in one of my >favorite musical territories: Mavila tunings. You can notate >conventionally, but minor triads and intervals will sound major and >major triads and intervals will sound minor! Mavila is really one of my >favorite tunings to sit down at the keyboard with and just play around -
>- I really don't have to think! But Mavila tunings aren't even close to >being 'fairly just' and only sound good with a few of the inharmonic >timbres on my keyboard.
>
>Best,
>Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗Paul Erlich <paul@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...>
wrote:

> How far out are you taking Mavila? Since it has MOS at 9 and 16 ( not
> that that has stopped me)

For the most part, I've taken it out only to 12 notes, so that I can
map the notes "conventionally" on the keyboard -- of course they are no
longer in order of pitch (F# is lower than F, Bb is lower than B, etc).
As far as the exact tuning, I've mostly used a generator ("perfect
fifth") of 677 cents on the Ensoniq and 680 cents on the Korg, with a
period of 1200 cents in both cases. "Conventional" pentatonic scales
are really fantastic in these tunings, sounding non-Western in the
extreme, and kinda Pelogish . . . so with 12 notes, I have 8 different
transpositions of this pentatonic that I can 'modulate' between . . .
lots of fun. Also fun is doing a "conventional" modulation to a sharp
or flat area and then being surprised when the return to the original
key involves a microtonal move in a direction opposite from what you
would have expected . . .

🔗Paul Erlich <paul@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

I like in the 16 tone version you have a scale almost the opposite of your diatonic with
S-S-S-L-S-S-L
instead of
L-L-L-S-L-L-S
But i use the generator 523.6628465
within a few cents of the complement of yours.
I have found the recurrent sequence leading to this quite good on an instrument like a hammered dulcimer which is diatonically biased
although i use only up to 10 pitches which is likewise what i used on my 5th mesa piece on the interior CD which oi believe you have.
although here we are still in the lower range of the sequence
as short sound clip on hammered D> on this page
http://anaphoria.com/cd.html

Paul Erlich wrote:

>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> >wrote:
>
> >
>>How far out are you taking Mavila? Since it has MOS at 9 and 16 ( not >>that that has stopped me)
>> >>
>
>For the most part, I've taken it out only to 12 notes, so that I can >map the notes "conventionally" on the keyboard -- of course they are no >longer in order of pitch (F# is lower than F, Bb is lower than B, etc). >As far as the exact tuning, I've mostly used a generator ("perfect >fifth") of 677 cents on the Ensoniq and 680 cents on the Korg, with a >period of 1200 cents in both cases. "Conventional" pentatonic scales >are really fantastic in these tunings, sounding non-Western in the >extreme, and kinda Pelogish . . . so with 12 notes, I have 8 different >transpositions of this pentatonic that I can 'modulate' between . . . >lots of fun. Also fun is doing a "conventional" modulation to a sharp >or flat area and then being surprised when the return to the original >key involves a microtonal move in a direction opposite from what you >would have expected . . .
>
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗Paul Erlich <paul@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...>
wrote:

> I like in the 16 tone version you have a scale almost the opposite of
> your diatonic with
> S-S-S-L-S-S-L
> instead of
> L-L-L-S-L-L-S

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you don't need to go out to 16 notes
for this -- only 7! My 12 note implemention contains 5 transpositions
of this "opposite-of-diatonic" scale -- one of which occurs on the
white keys of the keyboard. I do like this scale a lot but the
pentatonic carries more impact to my ears . . . maybe I'm just a
pentatonic kind of guy :) But probably the "opposite-of-diatonic" scale
in these tunings is simply too close to 7-equal, with not enough
contrast between small and large steps, to be of much melodic interest
for me. Move the tuning even further, all the way to 9-equal (generator
667 or 533 cents), and this "opposite-of-diatonic" scale becomes
melodically a lot more flavorful, if harmonically quite harsh.

> But i use the generator 523.6628465
> within a few cents of the complement of yours.

Within less than one cent. It's only a matter of convention whether you
say 523 or 677 -- the tuning comes out the same (if the period is 1200
cents).

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

this is BTW the way the chopis use their scale , as the basis of extracting pentatonics. Which shows a certain degree of scale sophistication
yes one could stop at 7 or 9 and rotate them out to fill out 12. which is originally what i did with that organ piece.

Paul Erlich wrote:

>--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> >wrote:
>
> >
>>I like in the 16 tone version you have a scale almost the opposite of >>your diatonic with
>>S-S-S-L-S-S-L
>>instead of
>>L-L-L-S-L-L-S
>> >>
>
>Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you don't need to go out to 16 notes >for this -- only 7! My 12 note implemention contains 5 transpositions >of this "opposite-of-diatonic" scale -- one of which occurs on the >white keys of the keyboard. I do like this scale a lot but the >pentatonic carries more impact to my ears . . . maybe I'm just a >pentatonic kind of guy :) But probably the "opposite-of-diatonic" scale >in these tunings is simply too close to 7-equal, with not enough >contrast between small and large steps, to be of much melodic interest >for me. Move the tuning even further, all the way to 9-equal (generator >667 or 533 cents), and this "opposite-of-diatonic" scale becomes >melodically a lot more flavorful, if harmonically quite harsh.
>
> >
>>But i use the generator 523.6628465
>>within a few cents of the complement of yours.
>> >>
>
>Within less than one cent. It's only a matter of convention whether you >say 523 or 677 -- the tuning comes out the same (if the period is 1200 >cents).
>
>
>
>
>
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
> >

--
Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

I call all meantones where the fifth is flatter than 1/3 comma (or 19-equal)
'active meantones'. They are an acquired taste, but I rather like them.
1/2-comma is close to 26-equal, and is a bit more active and approaching
pelog. 2/5-comma is close to 45-equal, and is a compromise between 19-equal
and 26-equal. You can try ever more active and flatter fifths by testing 5th
sizes from 26-equal and smaller by adding 4 to the numerator and 7 to the
denominator of each n-tet in a series:

15 steps of 26-tet, 19 of 33-tet, 23 of 40-tet, 27 of 47-tet, 31 of
54-tet......

of course, the resulting thirds (after going 4 fifths up) become more and more
neutral sounding and harsh with harmonic timbres. 26 (1/2-comma) for me is a
limit to how far *I* will go in these negative 'active meantones' and still
use traditional Western harmonic progressions. Going beyond gets more
'pelog-ish', but if that's you thing, you should enjoy it very much. It's a
different kind of beauty--very spicy and restless.

Best,
Aaron.

On Friday 12 August 2005 11:57 am, Paul Erlich wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Yahya Abdal-Aziz"
>
> > Here's my question, on which I seek your collective wisdom based
> > on actual experience of alternative tunings (rather than theory):
> > How far can one take this narrowing of the chromatic semitones,
> > while still retaining a fairly just flavour to the intonation?
>
> Hi Yahya,
>
> Perhaps Aaron Johnson is uniquely qualified to answer this question,
> considering the extensive work he's just done in 2/5-comma meantone,
> which could be one possible answer to your query.
>
> "Fairly just" is a relative term to say the least. I don't consider any
> meantone tuning, even the various 'optimal' ones such 1/4-comma,
> Riccati's 3/14-comma, Woolhouse's 7/26-comma, Smith's 5/18-comma
> (nearly enough), or Zarlino's 2/7-comma, to have that 'just-like'
> quality you get when all the consonances are within 2 or 3 cents of
> pure.
>
> But if one can make a *huge* stretch and consider 12-equal to be
> a 'fairly just' meantone in some 5-limit sense, then I do have an
> answer based on quite a bit of actual experience: 26-equal. This is a
> meantone tuning where the chromatic semitone is only 1/3 the size of
> the diatonic semitone, and 1/4 the size of the major second. These are
> very far from the proportions we're used to hearing, but the fact that
> this is a meantone tuning means that you can coherently express
> conventionally (Western) notated music in it, and the triads sound
> decent. If someone wants to notate conventionally and hear something
> radically different from 12-equal but doesn't want to deal with the
> comma drifts, comma shifts, and other difficulties of a non-meantone
> tuning, I'd recommend 26-equal.
>
> If one is willing to go even further and actually *reverse the
> direction* of the chromatic semitone (so that a sharp is a lowering of
> pitch and a flat is a raising of pitch), then one lands in one of my
> favorite musical territories: Mavila tunings. You can notate
> conventionally, but minor triads and intervals will sound major and
> major triads and intervals will sound minor! Mavila is really one of my
> favorite tunings to sit down at the keyboard with and just play around -
> - I really don't have to think! But Mavila tunings aren't even close to
> being 'fairly just' and only sound good with a few of the inharmonic
> timbres on my keyboard.
>
> Best,
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@...>

Hi all,

Paul Erlich wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Yahya Abdal-Aziz"
>
> > Here's my question, on which I seek your collective wisdom based
> > on actual experience of alternative tunings (rather than theory):
> > How far can one take this narrowing of the chromatic semitones,
> > while still retaining a fairly just flavour to the intonation?
>
> Hi Yahya,
>
> Perhaps Aaron Johnson is uniquely qualified to answer this question,
> considering the extensive work he's just done in 2/5-comma meantone,
> which could be one possible answer to your query.

Good - hope Aaron chimes in then ...

> "Fairly just" is a relative term to say the least. ...

:-) I meant this to be an "open probe" type of question, rather than
a "closed probe". And your response is just what I hoped for.

> ... I don't consider any
> meantone tuning, even the various 'optimal' ones such 1/4-comma,
> Riccati's 3/14-comma, Woolhouse's 7/26-comma, Smith's 5/18-comma
> (nearly enough), or Zarlino's 2/7-comma, to have that 'just-like'
> quality you get when all the consonances are within 2 or 3 cents of
> pure.
>
> But if one can make a *huge* stretch and consider 12-equal to be
> a 'fairly just' meantone in some 5-limit sense, then I do have an
> answer based on quite a bit of actual experience: 26-equal. This is a
> meantone tuning where the chromatic semitone is only 1/3 the size of
> the diatonic semitone, and 1/4 the size of the major second. These are
> very far from the proportions we're used to hearing, but the fact that
> this is a meantone tuning means that you can coherently express
> conventionally (Western) notated music in it, and the triads sound
> decent. If someone wants to notate conventionally and hear something
> radically different from 12-equal but doesn't want to deal with the
> comma drifts, comma shifts, and other difficulties of a non-meantone
> tuning, I'd recommend 26-equal.

Sounds exciting! Paul, do you have any recordings of yor work in
26-EDO I could listen to?

> If one is willing to go even further and actually *reverse the
> direction* of the chromatic semitone (so that a sharp is a lowering of
> pitch and a flat is a raising of pitch), then one lands in one of my
> favorite musical territories: Mavila tunings. You can notate
> conventionally, but minor triads and intervals will sound major and
> major triads and intervals will sound minor! Mavila is really one of my
> favorite tunings to sit down at the keyboard with and just play around -
> - I really don't have to think! But Mavila tunings aren't even close to
> being 'fairly just' and only sound good with a few of the inharmonic
> timbres on my keyboard.

Something completely different then - not only a very small semitone,
but a "negative" semitone ... Again, do you have examples I could hear?

> Best,
> Paul

Regards,
Yahya
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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🔗Paul Erlich <paul@...>

Aaron,

You may not realize that beyond the 'harsh' realm (I agree it's
harsh) there is another realm of great beauty. That's where 4 fifths
up (and 2 octaves down) gives you a decent "minor third" or
approximate 6:5, and 3 fifths down (and 2 octaves up) gives you a
decent "major third" or approximate 5:4. Therefore, it is no longer
in the meantone realm; rather it's the Mavila realm. You can play it
as if it were meantone but all your major intervals and triads will
sound minor Try 30-equal or 23-equal or 16-equal, and a pitched
idiophone timbre. With the right timbre the triads sound very 'right'
and not unstable or restless in the least. Even 9-equal may strike
your fancy if you can tolerate the fifths.

-Paul

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Krister Johnson
<aaron@a...> wrote:
>
> I call all meantones where the fifth is flatter than 1/3 comma (or
19-equal)
> 'active meantones'. They are an acquired taste, but I rather like
them.
> 1/2-comma is close to 26-equal, and is a bit more active and
approaching
> pelog. 2/5-comma is close to 45-equal, and is a compromise between
19-equal
> and 26-equal. You can try ever more active and flatter fifths by
testing 5th
> sizes from 26-equal and smaller by adding 4 to the numerator and 7
to the
> denominator of each n-tet in a series:
>
> 15 steps of 26-tet, 19 of 33-tet, 23 of 40-tet, 27 of 47-tet, 31 of
> 54-tet......
>
> of course, the resulting thirds (after going 4 fifths up) become
more and more
> neutral sounding and harsh with harmonic timbres. 26 (1/2-comma)
for me is a
> limit to how far *I* will go in these negative 'active meantones'
and still
> use traditional Western harmonic progressions. Going beyond gets
more
> 'pelog-ish', but if that's you thing, you should enjoy it very
much. It's a
> different kind of beauty--very spicy and restless.
>
> Best,
> Aaron.
>
>
>
> On Friday 12 August 2005 11:57 am, Paul Erlich wrote:
> > --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Yahya Abdal-Aziz"
> >
> > > Here's my question, on which I seek your collective wisdom based
> > > on actual experience of alternative tunings (rather than
theory):
> > > How far can one take this narrowing of the chromatic semitones,
> > > while still retaining a fairly just flavour to the intonation?
> >
> > Hi Yahya,
> >
> > Perhaps Aaron Johnson is uniquely qualified to answer this
question,
> > considering the extensive work he's just done in 2/5-comma
meantone,
> > which could be one possible answer to your query.
> >
> > "Fairly just" is a relative term to say the least. I don't
consider any
> > meantone tuning, even the various 'optimal' ones such 1/4-comma,
> > Riccati's 3/14-comma, Woolhouse's 7/26-comma, Smith's 5/18-comma
> > (nearly enough), or Zarlino's 2/7-comma, to have that 'just-like'
> > quality you get when all the consonances are within 2 or 3 cents
of
> > pure.
> >
> > But if one can make a *huge* stretch and consider 12-equal to be
> > a 'fairly just' meantone in some 5-limit sense, then I do have an
> > answer based on quite a bit of actual experience: 26-equal. This
is a
> > meantone tuning where the chromatic semitone is only 1/3 the size
of
> > the diatonic semitone, and 1/4 the size of the major second.
These are
> > very far from the proportions we're used to hearing, but the fact
that
> > this is a meantone tuning means that you can coherently express
> > conventionally (Western) notated music in it, and the triads sound
> > decent. If someone wants to notate conventionally and hear
something
> > radically different from 12-equal but doesn't want to deal with
the
> > comma drifts, comma shifts, and other difficulties of a non-
meantone
> > tuning, I'd recommend 26-equal.
> >
> > If one is willing to go even further and actually *reverse the
> > direction* of the chromatic semitone (so that a sharp is a
lowering of
> > pitch and a flat is a raising of pitch), then one lands in one of
my
> > favorite musical territories: Mavila tunings. You can notate
> > conventionally, but minor triads and intervals will sound major
and
> > major triads and intervals will sound minor! Mavila is really one
of my
> > favorite tunings to sit down at the keyboard with and just play
around -
> > - I really don't have to think! But Mavila tunings aren't even
close to
> > being 'fairly just' and only sound good with a few of the
inharmonic
> > timbres on my keyboard.
> >
> > Best,
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >

🔗Paul Erlich <paul@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Yahya Abdal-Aziz"

> Sounds exciting! Paul, do you have any recordings of yor work in
> 26-EDO I could listen to?

I'm afraid not :( But I spent many happy hours improvising with brass
timbres on my keyboard in a meantone-oriented subset of 26-equal. Maybe
I should refrain from posting until I'm prepared to support each post
with a recording of an original composition . . . which means I need to
get some software and hardware for my home computer . . .

> [On Mavila:] Something completely different then - not only a very
small semitone,
> but a "negative" semitone ... Again, do you have examples I could
hear?

Ara and I were working on one as part of a series of 4 or 5 microtonal
works . . . and then he fell off the face of the earth (he's fine, he
just needed a break from humanity for a while).

I know this is going to be extremely disappointing to most readers, but
in the spirit of offering *something* to listen to in these
tunings . . . Herman miller worked up versions of Pachelbel's Canon in
26-equal:

http://www.io.com/~hmiller/midi/canon26.mid

and in TOP Mavila (with the reversal of major and minor as I described):

http://www.io.com/~hmiller/midi/canon-top-pelogic.mid
(Aaron, is this one too harsh or restless for you?)

🔗Herman Miller <hmiller@...>

Paul Erlich wrote:

> I know this is going to be extremely disappointing to most readers, but > in the spirit of offering *something* to listen to in these > tunings . . . Herman miller worked up versions of Pachelbel's Canon in > 26-equal:
> > http://www.io.com/~hmiller/midi/canon26.mid

I've mentioned this before, but it was probably a few years ago by now: this should give you a good introduction to some of the possibilities of 26-ET, with more or less traditional harmony (and just a brief taste of the higher reaches of the harmonic series) which ends up going off in some unexpected directions. This is something I wrote when I was starting to explore the various ET's with retuned MIDI files.

http://www.io.com/~hmiller/midi/26tet.mid

Another thing 26-ET is good for is the so-called "lemba" temperament, which was one of the many unnamed temperaments that came up on the tuning-math list (in Gene Ward Smith's big list of 114 regular 7-limit temperaments). These brief excerpts are in TOP lemba, but could just as easily have been in 26-ET; lemba has a half-octave period, and a generator which is close to 5 steps of 26-ET. TOP lemba has a period of 601.7 cents and a generator of 230.875 cents.

http://www.io.com/~hmiller/music/ex/lemba.mid
http://www.io.com/~hmiller/mp3/lemba2.mp3

> and in TOP Mavila (with the reversal of major and minor as I described):
> > http://www.io.com/~hmiller/midi/canon-top-pelogic.mid
> (Aaron, is this one too harsh or restless for you?)

And here's a brief mavila sample which I intended to put on my Zireen music page (http://www.io.com/~hmiller/music/zireen-music.html) but seems to have been left out.

http://www.io.com/~hmiller/music/ex/kenet.mid

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@...>

Paul Erlich wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Yahya Abdal-Aziz"
>
> > Sounds exciting! Paul, do you have any recordings of yor work in
> > 26-EDO I could listen to?
>
> I'm afraid not :( But I spent many happy hours improvising with brass
> timbres on my keyboard in a meantone-oriented subset of 26-equal. Maybe
> I should refrain from posting until I'm prepared to support each post
> with a recording of an original composition . . . which means I need to
> get some software and hardware for my home computer . . .

Hi Paul,
No, please don't stop! :-) But being able to "support each post with
a recording of an original composition" would have the added benefit
of combining music-making with writing about it.

> > [On Mavila:] Something completely different then - not only a very
> > small semitone,
> > but a "negative" semitone ... Again, do you have examples I could
> > hear?
>
> Ara and I were working on one as part of a series of 4 or 5 microtonal
> works . . . and then he fell off the face of the earth (he's fine, he
> just needed a break from humanity for a while).
>
> I know this is going to be extremely disappointing to most readers, but
> in the spirit of offering *something* to listen to in these
> tunings . . . Herman miller worked up versions of Pachelbel's Canon in
> 26-equal:
>
> http://www.io.com/~hmiller/midi/canon26.mid
>
> and in TOP Mavila (with the reversal of major and minor as I described):
>
> http://www.io.com/~hmiller/midi/canon-top-pelogic.mid
> (Aaron, is this one too harsh or restless for you?)

Well, you may have disappointed the rest, but you have definitely
_appointed_ me! :-) I still haven't worked out how to get scala
tunings onto my MIDI keyboard (Roland E-28) - maybe it's not
possible? 8-0 But I can at least hear these on the PC's soundcard,
to get a flavour [sic] of the tuning.

[What IS the right word here? For the other senses, we have -
sight - a view, a glimpse
taste - a flavour, a savour
smell - an aroma, a whiff
touch - a feel

But for hearing - a whisper perhaps? :-) ]

Regards,
Yahya

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🔗monz <monz@...>

Hi Paul,

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Paul Erlich wrote:

>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Yahya Abdal-Aziz"
>
> > Sounds exciting! Paul, do you have any recordings of
> > yor work in 26-EDO I could listen to?
>
> I'm afraid not :( But I spent many happy hours improvising
> with brass timbres on my keyboard in a meantone-oriented
> subset of 26-equal. Maybe I should refrain from posting
> until I'm prepared to support each post with a recording
> of an original composition . . . which means I need to
> get some software and hardware for my home computer . . .

Umm ... as one of the few people who currently have
access to Tonescape, all you need to do is download
and activate it, and it would be a simple matter to
compose to your heart's content in 26-edo.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@...>

Herman Miller wrote:
...
> I've mentioned this before, but it was probably a few years ago by now:
> this should give you a good introduction to some of the possibilities of
> 26-ET, with more or less traditional harmony (and just a brief taste of
> the higher reaches of the harmonic series) which ends up going off in
> some unexpected directions. This is something I wrote when I was
> starting to explore the various ET's with retuned MIDI files.
>
> http://www.io.com/~hmiller/midi/26tet.mid
>
> Another thing 26-ET is good for is the so-called "lemba" temperament,
> which was one of the many unnamed temperaments that came up on the
> tuning-math list (in Gene Ward Smith's big list of 114 regular 7-limit
> temperaments). These brief excerpts are in TOP lemba, but could just as
> easily have been in 26-ET; lemba has a half-octave period, and a
> generator which is close to 5 steps of 26-ET. TOP lemba has a period of
> 601.7 cents and a generator of 230.875 cents.
>
> http://www.io.com/~hmiller/music/ex/lemba.mid
> http://www.io.com/~hmiller/mp3/lemba2.mp3
>
...
>
> And here's a brief mavila sample which I intended to put on my Zireen
> music page (http://www.io.com/~hmiller/music/zireen-music.html) but
> seems to have been left out.
>
> http://www.io.com/~hmiller/music/ex/kenet.mid

Thanks for these examples, Herman!

Regards,
Yahya

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🔗Paul Erlich <paul@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Yahya Abdal-Aziz"
<yahya@m...> wrote:

> Paul Erlich wrote:
> > Herman miller worked up versions of Pachelbel's Canon in
> > 26-equal:
> >
> > http://www.io.com/~hmiller/midi/canon26.mid
> >
> > and in TOP Mavila (with the reversal of major and minor as I
described):
> >
> > http://www.io.com/~hmiller/midi/canon-top-pelogic.mid
> > (Aaron, is this one too harsh or restless for you?)
>
> Well, you may have disappointed the rest, but you have definitely
> _appointed_ me! :-)

OK, maybe I was exaggerating. But *I'm* disappointed in that Aaron
has not responded to this and my other post on Mavila so far (cf. his
relative prolixity on Bach tunings on the tuning list). The main
reason being that he's a super composer and I'd like to open his mind
to some new possibilities he might have wrongly neglected so far, so
that we might all end up benefitting from the music that results.

> I still haven't worked out how to get scala
> tunings onto my MIDI keyboard (Roland E-28) - maybe it's not
> possible?

Maybe. This particular Roland model doesn't appear to be listed on
the Microtonal Synthesis website.

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@...>

Paul Erlich wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Yahya Abdal-Aziz"
> <yahya@m...> wrote:
>
> > Paul Erlich wrote:
> > > Herman miller worked up versions of Pachelbel's Canon in
> > > 26-equal:
> > >
> > > http://www.io.com/~hmiller/midi/canon26.mid
> > >
> > > and in TOP Mavila (with the reversal of major and minor as I
> described):
> > >
> > > http://www.io.com/~hmiller/midi/canon-top-pelogic.mid
> > > (Aaron, is this one too harsh or restless for you?)
> >
> > Well, you may have disappointed the rest, but you have definitely
> > _appointed_ me! :-)
>
> OK, maybe I was exaggerating. But *I'm* disappointed in that Aaron
> has not responded to this and my other post on Mavila so far (cf. his
> relative prolixity on Bach tunings on the tuning list). The main
> reason being that he's a super composer and I'd like to open his mind
> to some new possibilities he might have wrongly neglected so far, so
> that we might all end up benefitting from the music that results.

Paul,
"You can lead a horse", etc. And G B Shaw had his own witty twist
on that ... But I too would be interested to see what Aaron might make
of 26-EDO and, more particularly, Mavila.

Aaron!
What about giving those tunings a try?

> > I still haven't worked out how to get scala
> > tunings onto my MIDI keyboard (Roland E-28) - maybe it's not
> > possible?
>
> Maybe. This particular Roland model doesn't appear to be listed on
> the Microtonal Synthesis website.

Doh! Back when I bought it, I thought it had everything I needed -
and at a reasonable price. Should've known better ...

Regards,
Yahya

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Robert Smith Equal Harmony

🔗threesixesinarow <CACCOLA@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Jon Szanto <jszanto@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@...>

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🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

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🔗Paul Erlich <paul@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Paul Erlich <paul@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗Aaron Krister Johnson <aaron@...>

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@...>

🔗Paul Erlich <paul@...>

🔗Paul Erlich <paul@...>

🔗Herman Miller <hmiller@...>

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@...>

🔗monz <monz@...>

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@...>

🔗Paul Erlich <paul@...>

🔗Paul Erlich <paul@...>

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@...>