how to calculate the dissonance of an interval?

Hi

I have read the harmonic entropy model and seen some pics in the group
file folder .

I have a question ;

1- How can I calculate the dissonance of intervals, for example
intervals of 5/4 - 1/1 , 3/2 - 8/3 , 705 cent - 210 cent .

What about dissonance of more than 2 interval for example dissonance in
4:5:6 or 12:15:19. if possible please write me the detail.

2- is the justness of keenan another concept of concordance?

Hi

I have read the harmonic entropy model and seen some pics in the group
file folder .

I have a question ;

1- How can I calculate the dissonance of intervals, for example
intervals of 5/4 - 1/1 , 3/2 - 8/3 , 705 cent - 210 cent .

What about dissonance of more than 2 interval for example dissonance in
4:5:6 or 12:15:19. if possible please write me the detail.

2- is the justness of keenan another concept of concordance?

--- In harmonic_entropy@yahoogroups.com, "Mohajeri Shahin"
<shahinm@k...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Hi
>
> I have read the harmonic entropy model and seen some pics in the
group
> file folder .
>
> I have a question ;
>
> 1- How can I calculate the dissonance of intervals, for example
> intervals of 5/4 - 1/1 , 3/2 - 8/3 , 705 cent - 210 cent .

The harmonic entropy model has essentially one free parameter --
the "s" or hearing resolution of the listener. There are other
parameters too but they don't have much impact on how various
intervals are ranked by discordance. That said, I can try to get you
up to speed on the full harmonic entropy calculation (I've detailed
it here before) into which you'll have to input some values for these
parameters and you can then calculate the 'dissonance' of any
interval. Or I can just calculate these for you using some assumed
values for the parameters. Which would you prefer.

> What about dissonance of more than 2 interval for example
dissonance in
> 4:5:6 or 12:15:19. if possible please write me the detail.

This is a more complicated issue because we have both the triadic
harmonic entropy (which has been defined but not fully calculated) as
well as the individual dyadic ones, and we don't know how to scale
these relative to one another and how to combine them appropriately.

> 2- is the justness of keenan another concept of concordance?

No. You'll note that the most discordant intervals are also ones with
high 'justness' by Keenan's definition.

Dear paul

I want to know how to calculate the dissonace and cocordance with a
formula .

In persian music we tune instruments in different tunings related to
dastgah and some strings act like drone . I want to know how to
calculate for example dissonance of different neutral third ( for
example 335 or 343 cent sounding with different drones (G,F,....) in
different tuning systems.

thanks

________________________________

From: harmonic_entropy@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:harmonic_entropy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wallyesterpaulrus
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 3:01 AM
To: harmonic_entropy@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [harmonic_entropy] Re: how to calculate the dissonance of an
interval?

--- In harmonic_entropy@yahoogroups.com, "Mohajeri Shahin"
<shahinm@k...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Hi
>
> I have read the harmonic entropy model and seen some pics in the
group
> file folder .
>
> I have a question ;
>
> 1- How can I calculate the dissonance of intervals, for example
> intervals of 5/4 - 1/1 , 3/2 - 8/3 , 705 cent - 210 cent .

The harmonic entropy model has essentially one free parameter --
the "s" or hearing resolution of the listener. There are other
parameters too but they don't have much impact on how various
intervals are ranked by discordance. That said, I can try to get you
up to speed on the full harmonic entropy calculation (I've detailed
it here before) into which you'll have to input some values for these
parameters and you can then calculate the 'dissonance' of any
interval. Or I can just calculate these for you using some assumed
values for the parameters. Which would you prefer.

> What about dissonance of more than 2 interval for example
dissonance in
> 4:5:6 or 12:15:19. if possible please write me the detail.

This is a more complicated issue because we have both the triadic
harmonic entropy (which has been defined but not fully calculated) as
well as the individual dyadic ones, and we don't know how to scale
these relative to one another and how to combine them appropriately.

> 2- is the justness of keenan another concept of concordance?

No. You'll note that the most discordant intervals are also ones with
high 'justness' by Keenan's definition.

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ic&w4=Harmonic+filter&w5=Harmonic+scalpel&w6=Salience&c=6&s=95&.sig=ZnhI
lud6qNe0LaU6-XjsCw>

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monic&w4=Harmonic+filter&w5=Harmonic+scalpel&w6=Salience&c=6&s=95&.sig=5
ItC3PVMiHzDTSmUB14Usw>

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________________________________

Does what I wrote below make sense to you? Then how about this:

/harmonic_entropy/topicId_347.html#350

?

--- In harmonic_entropy@yahoogroups.com, "Mohajeri Shahin"
<shahinm@k...> wrote:
>
> Dear paul
>
>
>
> I want to know how to calculate the dissonace and cocordance with a
> formula .
>
> In persian music we tune instruments in different tunings related to
> dastgah and some strings act like drone . I want to know how to
> calculate for example dissonance of different neutral third ( for
> example 335 or 343 cent sounding with different drones (G,F,....) in
> different tuning systems.
>
>
>
> thanks
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: harmonic_entropy@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:harmonic_entropy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
wallyesterpaulrus
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 3:01 AM
> To: harmonic_entropy@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [harmonic_entropy] Re: how to calculate the dissonance of
an
> interval?
>
>
>
> --- In harmonic_entropy@yahoogroups.com, "Mohajeri Shahin"
> <shahinm@k...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > I have read the harmonic entropy model and seen some pics in the
> group
> > file folder .
> >
> > I have a question ;
> >
> > 1- How can I calculate the dissonance of intervals, for example
> > intervals of 5/4 - 1/1 , 3/2 - 8/3 , 705 cent - 210 cent .
>
> The harmonic entropy model has essentially one free parameter --
> the "s" or hearing resolution of the listener. There are other
> parameters too but they don't have much impact on how various
> intervals are ranked by discordance. That said, I can try to get
you
> up to speed on the full harmonic entropy calculation (I've detailed
> it here before) into which you'll have to input some values for
these
> parameters and you can then calculate the 'dissonance' of any
> interval. Or I can just calculate these for you using some assumed
> values for the parameters. Which would you prefer.
>
> > What about dissonance of more than 2 interval for example
> dissonance in
> > 4:5:6 or 12:15:19. if possible please write me the detail.
>
> This is a more complicated issue because we have both the triadic
> harmonic entropy (which has been defined but not fully calculated)
as
> well as the individual dyadic ones, and we don't know how to scale
> these relative to one another and how to combine them appropriately.
>
> > 2- is the justness of keenan another concept of concordance?
>
> No. You'll note that the most discordant intervals are also ones
with
> high 'justness' by Keenan's definition.
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
>
> Music
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Music&w1=Music&w2=Entropy&w3=Harmon
>
ic&w4=Harmonic+filter&w5=Harmonic+scalpel&w6=Salience&c=6&s=95&.sig=Zn
hI
> lud6qNe0LaU6-XjsCw>
>
> Entropy
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Entropy&w1=Music&w2=Entropy&w3=Harm
>
onic&w4=Harmonic+filter&w5=Harmonic+scalpel&w6=Salience&c=6&s=95&.sig=
Mm
> oP9tgVuf65A-JKuOiIoA>
>
> Harmonic
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Harmonic&w1=Music&w2=Entropy&w3=Har
>
monic&w4=Harmonic+filter&w5=Harmonic+scalpel&w6=Salience&c=6&s=95&.sig
=W
> f6civSJD_J0D3Sihm0Z6Q>
>
> Harmonic filter
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Harmonic+filter&w1=Music&w2=Entropy
>
&w3=Harmonic&w4=Harmonic+filter&w5=Harmonic+scalpel&w6=Salience&c=6&s=
95
> &.sig=l1kS14xhk5aGO35EeGe9sg>
>
> Harmonic scalpel
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Harmonic+scalpel&w1=Music&w2=Entrop
>
y&w3=Harmonic&w4=Harmonic+filter&w5=Harmonic+scalpel&w6=Salience&c=6&s
=9
> 5&.sig=EyBt2aOV5HfHzgo1BsqY0A>
>
> Salience
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Salience&w1=Music&w2=Entropy&w3=Har
>
monic&w4=Harmonic+filter&w5=Harmonic+scalpel&w6=Salience&c=6&s=95&.sig
=5
> ItC3PVMiHzDTSmUB14Usw>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> * Visit your group "harmonic_entropy
> </harmonic_entropy> " on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> <mailto:harmonic_entropy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
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> >
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> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>