Re: "Hic ego barbarus sum quia non intelligor illis"

--- In crazy_music@y..., xed@e... wrote:
> FROM: mclaren
> TO: The new Mathematical Masturbation list
> SUBJECT: "Hic ego barbarus sum quia non intelligor illis"
>

Hi Brian,

I had considered sending in a post along the lines of "lets
keep it real" to the list, as topics best left to the original
tuning list started cropping up (topics, not people) (and I am
a happy subscriber to both lists).

I suppose its too late now but...

Your post overflowed in some way and I was unable to get to the
end of it, although I suspect it was more of the same. If three
or four civil and scholarly threads come out of your post, then
thats fine (though I would tend to think they were more
appropriate on the original tuning list).

Brian, I tend to agree with some of your (and your quotees)
points regarding overly theorizing, especially when something
is discussed as prescriptive theory. If people think they
can skip lengthy ear-work on the way to making music, then they
are mistaken. But that doesn't invalidate mind-work when it
detects it can be used to help one expand what their is are
enjoying.

At the beginning of this tuning list I related a story about
a girl I knew who could only improvise at the piano in D dorian.
She made pretty good music, although there was a little lack
of variety after awhile. It was all D dorian music. Fine, there
is no value judgement to be made.

Another musician may have benefitted from learning that the use
of the black keys allowed other dorians to be played, and maybe
those finger/sound constraints would provide some new melodic
directions for her. Or that her same white keys could give her
a G myxolydian, with a somewhat different vibe than the dorian.

We could refer to the person who trys to show her these things
a member of the "piano police", or a theory wanker, or
whatever. And perhaps they would be if they immediately said
"no you can't do that because [famous composer and/or theory]
says no". But if they try to show some of the other
options/implications available, they may provide her a few
landmarks that allow her to find something new to add to her
music, or identify a path she doesn't want her music to take.

Informed choice. Yes, the choosing must be done with her ears.
But the informing is however you can get someone to look at
soething they might not see for some reason.

Lets both keep it civil and keep it real.

Bob Valentine

Hi Brian. If you have some disagreement with Paul, Carl and JDL you
should just come out and say so instead of beating around the bush.

I disagree with you on the utility of mathematics in microtonal music.
Although I am not personally interested in lattice diagrams and other
devices discussed in the tuning forum, I do think someone has to do
this work in establishing mathematical structures that may have
relevance to music. Yes, I am uninformed on the matter because the
mathematics is not the sort I find fascinating (start talking Clifford
Algebras, and I'm there). These structures may or may not be relevant,
but only experimental evidence will establish that. If any right
conclusions can be drawn, there will need to be some sort of
mathematical descriptions available to work with. These guys are doing
(all differently) what they love, and that's OK with me.