Novaro and Herf (was: Jacky LIgon's "primes" tuning)

> From: Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>
> To: <crazy_music@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 7:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [crazy_music] Jacky LIgon's "primes" tuning
>
>
> Brian!
> another interesting way of using JI intervals is like
> Novaro. the idea is simply to use harmonic equally spaced
> by number as in 11, 17, 23, 29 or 37,43,49,55,61,67,73, 79
> all separated by 6
>
> as chords they sound good and hints that acoustical
> "coincidence" can by itself tend toward a more consonant
> sound than expected.

Hi Kraig,

Back around late April, when we were discussing different
microtonal notation systems, I posted something pretty detailed
about Franz Richter Herf, who used 72-EDO to represent
high-limit JI (very similar to the way Maneri uses it to
represent the whole virtual pitch continuum). This method
of "equally spaced by number" ratios was exactly Herf's
method. I wonder if he got the idea from Novaro?

(BTW, is the correct spelling Novaro or Novarro?
I've seen it both ways too many times to be sure which
one is right.)

-monz
http://www.monz.org
"All roads lead to n^0"

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> From: D.Stearns <STEARNS@...>
> To: <crazy_music@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 12:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [crazy_music] Novaro and Herf (was: Jacky LIgon's "primes"
tuning)
>
>
> Kraig and Joe,
>
> This is also the method I used to experiment with 9- and 11-tone
> scales in 20-tet by trying out some exotic alternatives to the 4:5:6
> triad!
>
> ...
>
> The 9-tone was based on a 11:13:15 triad and its inversion,
> 1/(15:13:11). You could string these together as triads to form a sort
> of pseudo 9-tone major scale in 20-tet as,
>
> 11 16 20 5 9 14 18 3 7
>
> The 11-tone was based on either the 13:16:19 triad and its inversion,
> or the 17:21:25 triad and its inversion. You could string these
> together in 20-tet as triads to create a pseudo 11-tone major scale
> like this,
>
> 9 15 20 6 11 17 2 8 13 19 4

Hi Dan,

The method is essentially the same, but with an important difference.

"Equally spaced by number" in your method refers to degree-numbers
of the EDO. In Novaro and Herf, it refers to harmonic numbers.

I.e., yours are logarithmic while theirs are not, so that the
Novaro/Herf method results in interval differences between the
pitches which continually get narrower and narrower as the
numbers get larger.

-monz
http://www.monz.org
"All roads lead to n^0"

_________________________________________________________
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> From: D.Stearns <STEARNS@...>
> To: <crazy_music@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 1:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [crazy_music] Novaro and Herf (was: Jacky LIgon's "primes"
tuning)
>
>
> Hi Joe,
>
> In the two examples I gave the triads do exactly that of course -- the
> pitches continually get narrower and narrower as the numbers get
> larger.
>
> In fact the 11-tone examples would do the same as tetrads (i.e.,
> 13:16:19:22 and 17:21:25:29 are 6 5 4 in 20-tet), but in these scales
> it's only relevant to what I was trying to do through the triads
> anyway.

Hi Dan,

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, I can see the procedure at
work *within* the triads or tetrads. But then those 2 or 3
different-sized intervals are repeated exactly at other 20-EDO
scale degrees.

The difference is that in the Novaro/Herf approach, the intervals
*keep* getting smaller "forever", without any replications.

(I realize that you know the difference, but thought that I
should state it in case anyone else was missing it or confused.)

-monz
http://www.monz.org
"All roads lead to n^0"

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joe!
the first way with one r. yes i spelt it right for a change:)

monz wrote:

> (BTW, is the correct spelling Novaro or Novarro?
> I've seen it both ways too many times to be sure which
> one is right.)

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

Dan!

( First let me stste that mathematics is quite useful to music) look
without it it would be hard to come up with recognizable names for such
things as 'seconds, thirds. fifths etc.)

A question for anyone!
If one generates a scale by a chain of triads, what criteria is
useful in determining a good point to stop and or what makes a cyclical
point?

"D.Stearns" wrote:

> Kraig and Joe,
>
> This is also the method I used to experiment with 9- and 11-tone
> scales in 20-tet by trying out some exotic alternatives to the 4:5:6
> triad!
>
> (WARNING: The following text contains a few numbers and a bit of
> mathematically derived business. If numbers and mathematically derived
>
> business are offensive to you, please discontinue at this point. Thank
>
> you for your cooperation.)
>
> The 9-tone was based on a 11:13:15 triad and its inversion,
> 1/(15:13:11). You could string these together as triads to form a sort
>
> of pseudo 9-tone major scale in 20-tet as,
>
> 11 16 20 5 9 14 18 3 7
>
> The 11-tone was based on either the 13:16:19 triad and its inversion,
> or the 17:21:25 triad and its inversion. You could string these
> together in 20-tet as triads to create a pseudo 11-tone major scale
> like this,
>
> 9 15 20 6 11 17 2 8 13 19 4
>
> --Dan Stearns

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm