Re: You can't deal with bullies by ignoring them

In-Reply-To: <9ijg9s+8p13@...>
> Sadly, John deLaubenfels knows what Hitler
> knew long ago -- the Big Lie works. If you tell
> a lie over and over and over again, eventually
> people will begin to believe it.

Godwin's Law

Graham

McLaren & Monz & JdL, and et al...

What is WRONG with you people? Can't we just have a pleasant, low-key list
where we talk about music & tuning without everyone getting huffy and
insulting, and baiting one another with insults?

Can you all PLEASE take this pathetic and sophomoric mud-slinging fest off
this list? I'm just a bystander who's getting really tired of long-winded
rambling diatribes and accusations back and forth... on _ALL_ sides.

Lots of people around here are sounding like bullies & a**holes to me. And
I'm sorry to say McLaren comes off sounding not a whit better than anyone
whom he's railing against. In fact, often worse because his diatribes are
longer and more vitriolic than anything I've seen anyone post here or on the
"other" tuning list. I'm about ready to auto-delete all postings from
xed@....

I unsubbed from the other tuning list because it was eye-glazing arguments
about math & comparative navel lint & obnoxious ad hominem wheedling, and not
a lot about music. This list has already degenerated into a sadistic forum
for McLaren to blast everyone in sight with vitriol from his firehose.

Sheesh!

Rick

Hi Rick,

> From: Rick McGowan <rick@...>
> To: <crazy_music@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 7:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [crazy_music] Monzo's dreary effort to defend the
indefensible
>
> > [monz:]
> > So just skip it if you're not interested.
>
> Already skipped it, thanks.

> From: Rick McGowan <rick@...>
> To: <crazy_music@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 9:08 AM
> Subject: [crazy_music] You can't deal with bullies by ignoring them
>
>
> McLaren & Monz & JdL, and et al...
>
> What is WRONG with you people? Can't we just have
> a pleasant, low-key list where we talk about music
> & tuning without everyone getting huffy and insulting,
> and baiting one another with insults?
>
> Can you all PLEASE take this pathetic and sophomoric
> mud-slinging fest off this list? I'm just a bystander
> who's getting really tired of long-winded rambling
> diatribes and accusations back and forth... on _ALL_ sides.

If you didn't read my response to mclaren, could I please
respectfully ask you to refrain from including me in comments
like this?

In my single follow-up post on this thread, I did *not*:

- get huffy
- insult
- bait with insults
- sling mud

I simply presented my understanding of Schoenberg's theory
(which after a long time and a vast amount of study I feel
is a quite accurate assessment), along with an extensive
quote from Schoenberg himself relating directly to the subject
of sonance, which is what we were originally discussing in
this thread.

I did this as a response to Brian, countering his vitrolic
reply to me in as polite and sympathetic a manner as I possibly
could. Part of the reason why I sent this to the list publicly
rather than to Brian privately was because I felt that my
style here gave an example of how one could respond to a
charge of "lying" and "attacking" without fanning the flames
further.

If you skipped it and then made further charges against
me based on the contrary of what I wrote, then you're not
helping to promote peace and harmony either. Please try
to be more careful. Thanks.

PS - I will say in total agreement with Brian that no matter
how much one tries to be a pacifist, there are many folks
in this world who simply will not stop their childish behavior
unless they're spanked. It's very unfortunate, and my hope
is that someday it will change, but that *is* how it is,
and has been for millennia.

Respectfully,

-monz
http://www.monz.org
"All roads lead to n^0"

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[Rick McGowan wrote:]
>McLaren & Monz & JdL, and et al...

>What is WRONG with you people? Can't we just have a pleasant, low-key
>list where we talk about music & tuning without everyone getting huffy
>and insulting, and baiting one another with insults?

>Can you all PLEASE take this pathetic and sophomoric mud-slinging fest
>off this list? I'm just a bystander who's getting really tired of
>long-winded rambling diatribes and accusations back and forth... on
>_ALL_ sides.

Again, my apologies for my part, Rick and everyone. I will try very
hard not to bandy about any more nasty words on this list.

Aren't you being unjust to Monz, though? As I recall, he was completely
courteous through this. You aren't faulting him for defending his
interpretations of Schoenberg's works, are you?

I have posted some thoughts on tuning-challenges, if anyone is
interested. That's where all this conflict should've been in any case!

JdL

JdL asked:

> Aren't you being unjust to Monz, though?

For what it's worth. Here is a snippet of what I wrote back to Monz.

Rick

------------------------

This was a joke:
> Already skipped it, thanks.

I read it all & wished I'd skipped it. Well, "all" is a bit strong. I read
as much as I could take of McLaren's flame & deleted everything.

Sorry, Monz, I don't mean to imply that YOU are getting huffy, etc, just
that you & John were involved in the "discussion".

The entire Shoenberg conversation, and just about anything McLaren posts has
just started to rub me the wrong way